Amp / speaker combo for Piano

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Amp / speaker combo for Piano

Gerhard Zintel
Hi,

I'm looking for a amp / speaker combination for keyboard. It should be
especially give good reproduction of piano sounds (using Pianoteq) and having a
solid bass floor. I have to fight 4 (non amplified) wind instruments (B.CL,
2xTb and Alto Sax) and a drum kit in our rehearsal room.

For I have to substitute partly a bass player it must be able to reproduce the
sound of the lower keys sufficiently. Price below 1000 € and and not too much
weight would be benefits.

I'm grateful for any hint.
Gerhard
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Re: Amp / speaker combo for Piano

David W. Jones


On March 4, 2019 11:25:31 AM HST, Gerhard Zintel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a amp / speaker combination for keyboard. It should be
>
> especially give good reproduction of piano sounds (using Pianoteq) and
> having a
> solid bass floor. I have to fight 4 (non amplified) wind instruments
> (B.CL,
> 2xTb and Alto Sax) and a drum kit in our rehearsal room.
>
> For I have to substitute partly a bass player it must be able to
> reproduce the
> sound of the lower keys sufficiently. Price below 1000 € and and not
> too much
> weight would be benefits.
>
> I'm grateful for any hint.
> Gerhard

While I use a small home stereo amp & bookshelf speakers, this Roland has been on my wishlist for years now:

Roland KC-110 - Battery-Powered Keyboard Amplifier
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/672894-REG/Roland_KC_110_KC_110_Battery_Powered_Keyboard.html

It doesn't need batteries.

--
David W. Jones
[hidden email]
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com

Sent from my Android device with F/LOSS K-9 Mail.
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Re: Amp / speaker combo for Piano

audio
In reply to this post by Gerhard Zintel
The wanted sound characteristic, in combination with the needed sound
intensity, requires heavy weight gear, if durability should be a
concern, too.
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Re: Amp / speaker combo for Piano

Josh Lawrence-2
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 5:30 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> The wanted sound characteristic, in combination with the needed sound
> intensity, requires heavy weight gear, if durability should be a
> concern, too.

for the best sound, you probably want to stay away from keyboard amps and go for a powered PA speaker.  QSC speakers are very popular with keyboard players, but there are other options as well:

https://www.qsc.com/live-sound/products/loudspeakers/powered-loudspeakers/k-series/k12/

a pair of these will sound fantastic.

Josh
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Re: Amp / speaker combo for Piano

Gerhard Zintel
On Tuesday 05 March 2019, Josh Lawrence wrote:
> for the best sound, you probably want to stay away from keyboard amps and
> go for a powered PA speaker.  QSC speakers are very popular with keyboard
> players, but there are other options as well:
>
> https://www.qsc.com/live-sound/products/loudspeakers/powered-loudspeakers/k
>-series/k12/
>
> a pair of these will sound fantastic.

Thanks for this hint. I meanwhile already looked for the QSC line and am asking
myself if its worth to go for the K12.2 series or if it is enough bang for the
buck to go with the cheaper CP12 systems. Less money, less weight, less but
surely sufficient Power (500 Watts) but no programmable equaliser and somewhat
higher corner frequency. I might have to test both in comparison?!

Gerhard
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Re: Amp / speaker combo for Piano

audio
On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 20:03:41 +0100, Gerhard Zintel wrote:
>500 Watts

My guess is that you need a more than 150 W and less than 500 W PA or
keyboard amp, while 500 Watt are not that way too much, that the
speakers would sound less good, while used at relatively low levels.
Regarding the PDF the CP12 are able to provide 126 dB. A short
googling mentions that pain threshold is around 110 dB, just jets and
the idiot's rock disco reach around 120 dB. Permanent hearing damage
requires around 90 dB lasting noise.

For such a "mini big band" I would test those CP12 or similar. I don't
think you need to compare them with speakers that provide more Watt.
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Re: Amp / speaker combo for Piano

Roger E
On 6/3/19 7:00 pm, [hidden email] wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 20:03:41 +0100, Gerhard Zintel wrote:
>> 500 Watts
> My guess is that you need a more than 150 W and less than 500 W PA or
> keyboard amp, while 500 Watt are not that way too much, that the
> speakers would sound less good, while used at relatively low levels.
> Regarding the PDF the CP12 are able to provide 126 dB. A short
> googling mentions that pain threshold is around 110 dB, just jets and
> the idiot's rock disco reach around 120 dB. Permanent hearing damage
> requires around 90 dB lasting noise.
>
> For such a "mini big band" I would test those CP12 or similar. I don't
> think you need to compare them with speakers that provide more Watt.
Numbers don't tell you how a speaker sounds. I recommend the QSC K10 or
K10.2 as they sound good, both at low and high levels. I imagine the
CP12 would sound OK too. Bear in mind that the published power rating
for these is peak power, not the standard RMS so 1,000W or 2,000W is not
actually that much. I have 2,000W peak power in my car!
Roger
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Re: Amp / speaker combo for Piano

audio
On Thu, 7 Mar 2019 00:01:41 +1100, Roger wrote:
>On 6/3/19 7:00 pm, [hidden email] wrote:
>> I don't think you need to compare them with speakers that provide
>> more Watt.  
>Numbers don't tell you how a speaker sounds.

I agree on that. Comparison regarding the sound makes sense. My point is
just that I expect speakers > 150 W and <= 500 W grant the wanted sound
intensity and the OP doesn't risk that a speaker blows.

Not accurate, but a good rule of thumb:

"There are no similar loudspeaker power handling regulations in the US;
the problem is much harder as many loudspeaker systems have very
different power handling capacities at different frequencies (e.g.,
tweeters which handle high frequency signals are physically small and
easily damaged, while woofers which handle low frequency signals are
larger and more robust)." -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power#Power_handling
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Re: Amp / speaker combo for Piano

Gerhard Zintel
In reply to this post by Gerhard Zintel
(sorry Chris to have sent it to your private mail address accidentally)

On Thursday 07 March 2019, Chris Caudle wrote:
> > For sure you can tune such a system to be efficient in
> > a small frequency range.
>
> The article mentioned "a" high pitched tone, singular article in English
> implying single frequency or small spread of frequency.  Does not seem
> likely to be useful for music use,  might help for machinery with a
> specific annoying high pitch frequency.

Now that I looked closer to the picture of the device I assume I understand the
principle. Nothing new, used in e.g. thousands of exhaust systems for 50 years
and more.

Split a pipe into two pipes with equivalent sections (same area in both
downstream pipes). Make pipe 2 longer than pipe 1. Let both pipes join together
at an outlet orifice and radiate into the open.

The difference in length between the pipes is L. At the frequencies where L is
half a wavelength the both waves at the opening are out of phase. This gives
(ideally) total reflection at the opening.

The picture gives the impression of about a  few centimetres difference between
outer path (the spiral inside the plug) and the direct path (length of the
plug). The first efficient reduction is to be expected at

f = C / (2*L)

thus about 5 kHz for L = 3.4 cm. It is efficient furthermore at multiples of
that frequency.

From the article

"If, however, you peered into the PVC pipe, you would see the loudspeaker's
subwoofers thrumming away."  

At 5 kHz you will never see the speaker thrumming! It is written as if they
could cancel not only the "high-pitched note" but also the low end. That is
obviously due to the writers lack of knowledge or pure advertisement bullshit.

just my 2 ¢
Gerhard
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Re: Amp / speaker combo for Piano

Josh Lawrence-2
In reply to this post by Gerhard Zintel
hello Gerhard,

On Tue, Mar 5, 2019, at 1:04 PM, Gerhard Zintel wrote:
> Thanks for this hint. I meanwhile already looked for the QSC line and am asking
> myself if its worth to go for the K12.2 series or if it is enough bang for the
> buck to go with the cheaper CP12 systems. Less money, less weight, less but
> surely sufficient Power (500 Watts) but no programmable equaliser and somewhat
> higher corner frequency. I might have to test both in comparison?!

I've heard the K12s and they sound absolutely fantastic, however, I cannot afford them.  I recently picked up a pair of the CP12s and have been 100% satisfied.

Josh
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