How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

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How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Steven Kruyswijk
Hi all,

For a sound playback system I'm putting together, based on a Raspberry Pi 3,
I'm looking to have 4 channels of input and output, and to have the system
to run automatically at startup.

For this, I'm wondering how to (best) execute zita-a2j and zita-j2a; I've
tried two methods that don't work:

1. ask Qjackctl to execute the following script after startup:

sleep 5
zita-j2a -d hw:CODEC_1

2. execute this script:

qjackctl (with auto-start)
sleep 10
zita-j2a -d hw:CODEC_1

Executing the zita-j2a manually after Qjackctl has finished starting the
jack server does work.

Any pointers greatly appreciated!

Cheers, Steven



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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Fons Adriaensen-3
On Sun, Jul 08, 2018 at 04:42:19AM -0700, Steven Kruyswijk wrote:
 
> 1. ask Qjackctl to execute the following script after startup:
>
> sleep 5
> zita-j2a -d hw:CODEC_1

No idea why this won't work, maybe you forgot the

#!/bin/bash

or to make the script executable.


> 2. execute this script:
>
> qjackctl (with auto-start)
> sleep 10
> zita-j2a -d hw:CODEC_1

This will wait for qjackctl to terminate before doing
anything else.

You could try:

qjackctl &


If this is to run standalone, why run qjackctl at all ?
Just start jack with the required parameters, e.g.:

---
#!/bin/bash

# Make sure to start from a clean state.
#
killall -9 zita-j2a
killall -9 jackd
#...
sleep 1

# Start jack and anything else required.
#
jackd -P 70 -d alsa -d hw:0,0 -r 48000 -p 256 -n 2
sleep 2
zita-j2a -d CODEC_1
#...
---

Ciao,

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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Robin Gareus
In reply to this post by Steven Kruyswijk
On 07/08/2018 01:42 PM, Steven Kruyswijk wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For a sound playback system I'm putting together, based on a Raspberry Pi 3,
> I'm looking to have 4 channels of input and output, and to have the system
> to run automatically at startup.

Is there a reason why you do want the external clients instead of using
jack1's built-in version of zita-ajbridge?

  jackd \
    -I CARDNAME:zalsa_out/-dhw:CARD \
    -I CARDNAME:zalsa_in/-dhw:CARD  \
    -dalsa  ...


In your case try something like

 jackd -I alsa-playback:zalsa_in/-dhw:CODEC_1 -dalsa -dhw:PCH -r48000
-p1024 -n2


If you do need qjackctl, you can pass the additional parameters using
the advanced server-prefix config.

[...]

> qjackctl (with auto-start)
> sleep 10

as a side-note, there's  `jack_wait`  which can sleep until jack becomes
available. It comes with jackd, and is much nicer than sleep.

Cheers!
robin
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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Steven Kruyswijk
In reply to this post by Fons Adriaensen-3
Thanks Fons,

Being a near-total Linux newbie I did forget the #!/bin/bash, but also when
including that, and with the script being executable (it was already), it
doesn't work for adding the extra inputs/outputs:

#!/bin/bash
sleep 5
zita-j2a -d hw:CODEC_1

Executing this script manually after jack has started does work...

Thanks for your other suggestions as well. It would indeed make sense not to
use qjackctl at all; I was just trying to take it one step at a time, and
also the idea is to have the system be accessible through VNC for the time
being, to evaluate it.
 

 



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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Steven Kruyswijk
In reply to this post by Robin Gareus
Thanks Robin,

I didn't know about zita-ajbridge yet, I will look into it.

For the time being though, I'm probably switching to an old Mac Mini to run
my Pure Data patch, seen as making an Aggregate Device on that is more
suitable to my current level of practical Linux knowledge.



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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Robin Gareus
On 07/08/2018 02:55 PM, Steven Kruyswijk wrote:
> Thanks Robin,
>
> I didn't know about zita-ajbridge yet, I will look into it.

zita-ajbridge = zita-a2j + zita=-j2a

These standalone tools were later built-into jack1 (jack 0.124 or later)
for convenience.


> For the time being though, I'm probably switching to an old Mac Mini to run
> my Pure Data patch, seen as making an Aggregate Device on that is more
> suitable to my current level of practical Linux knowledge.
>

I have to admit, Apple's aggregate device UI is brilliant as is
Coreaudio's design.
Also Mac Mini are awesome machines for A/V live performances, mainly
because the do come with a robust case but also because they're more
powerful than an average RPi, besides GNU/Linux runs fine on Mini Mac.

That being said. Don't give up on the RPi, it may seem complicated if
you have not done this before, but it's really not.

Cheers!
robin
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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Steven Kruyswijk
Thanks, yes I'm definitely not giving up on the RPi, seen as it's way more
suited for a possible series production run of this particular sound system
than an old Mac Mini.

I just thought I'd mention it because it could be a while before I'll post
again about my new findings on Linux.



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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Steven Kruyswijk
Alright I've decided to give the RPi/Linux/Jack route another try... I have
to say my progress is pretty slow though... the Mac Mini route still looks
very enticing. Right now, I'm trying to understand this suggested line:

jackd -I alsa-playback:zalsa_in/-dhw:CODEC_1 -dalsa -dhw:PCH -r48000 -p1024
-n2

When I look up the man page for jackd at
https://manpages.debian.org/testing/jackd1/jackd.1.en.html, this is the
explanation for the -I parameter:

/-I, --internal-client client-spec
 
Load client-name as an internal client. May be used multiple times. The form
of client-spec can be any of the following:
 
client-path
 
client-name:client-path
 
client-name:client-path/init-string
 
client-path/init-string
 
The first form will cause jackd to attempt to load the client from a shared
object named "client-path" with appropriate suffixes appended. If
"client-path" is absolute, jackd will use that (adding a platform
appropriate suffix for a shared object). If it is not absolute, jackd will
look for "client-path" (with an appropriate suffix) in the same location
that drivers and other JACK add-ons are located.
 
The second form provides "client-name" as the desired name for the client
once loaded, in addition to the "client-path".
 
The third form provides an "init-string" in addition to a client name and
path, which will be passed to the client's initialization function.
 
The final form does not specify the client name, but does include the path
to the client's shared object file and an initializations string.
 
When invoking JACK from the shell, remember to quote the argument to -I if
it includes spaces.
 /

which I find really hard to relate to /alsa-playback:zalsa_in/-dhw:CODEC_1/

Also, I have been unsuccesful in instantiating zita-j2a by running a script
from qjackctl, even when executing that script manually does work.

Can anyone please point me to a page where I can learn more about how to
make a setup where Pure Data runs automatically after boot, connecting to
more than one audio interface?








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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Paul Davis


On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 11:48 AM, Steven Kruyswijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
Alright I've decided to give the RPi/Linux/Jack route another try... I have
to say my progress is pretty slow though... the Mac Mini route still looks
very enticing. Right now, I'm trying to understand this suggested line:

jackd -I alsa-playback:zalsa_in/-dhw:CODEC_1 -dalsa -dhw:PCH -r48000 -p1024
-n2

When I look up the man page for jackd at
https://manpages.debian.org/testing/jackd1/jackd.1.en.html, this is the
explanation for the -I parameter:

​Not much point quoting a lot of text when you've just given the link. Anyway, I digress. The key line in the man page is:​

client-name:client-path/init-string

​so, if you told JACK

     -I foo:bar/baz

That means: create a client called "foo", by loading the internal client from "bar" and give it "baz" as its initialization string.​

​So this:​

which I find really hard to relate to /alsa-playback:zalsa_in/-dhw:CODEC_1/

​means: create a client called "alsa-playback" by loading the "zalsa-in" internal client, and give it an initialization string of "-dhw:CODEC_1".

The initialization string for internal clients is specific to each client, but zalsa-in has most of its arguments in common with JACK itself. So "-dhw:CODEC_1" means "use the device identified as "hw:CODEC_1". ​


Can anyone please point me to a page where I can learn more about how to
make a setup where Pure Data runs automatically after boot, connecting to
more than one audio interface?

​I suggest you remain focused on gettings things working on a command line before you try to set up a "Pd at boot system". You might prefer that all these tools just worked without you having to understand too much about them, but they don't. It will help you in the future to get a more solid grasp of what is going on and how things work and cooperate.​

 


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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Steven Kruyswijk
Thanks Paul, and thanks in general for your work in developing Jack, much
appreciated.

Your comments will be very useful I'm sure if or when I get to working with
jack from the command line. For now I've been able to sort out my challenge
with the following:

It turns out that the script that I used to invoke zita-j2a, needed the
aforementioned (but in a slightly different context) ampersand; this script
now works, from within the qjackctl preferences:

#!/bin/bash
zita-j2a -d hw:CODEC_1 &

Also, I've figured out how to instantiate pure data (or purr data, actually)
with the right audio output settings from this same script. And I've figured
out how to make the connections in qjackctl persistent, and how to execute
qjackctl each time the OS starts - which satisfies my request for a 'Pd at
boot system'.

I guess you may have interpreted that last goal as a completely minimal
Pd-only setup, which makes me think of Geert Bevin's Erpiam project, which I
would like to check out some time eventually.

Thanks again!





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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Jonathan E. Brickman

Greetings, Steven.  Ditto the thanks to Paul and everyone else who builds!  I thought you might find useful, some of the command line bits I'm using in my production build:

https://github.com/ponderworthy/the-box-of-no-return

I start it off using Bash and then call Python to call everything else, I found it a bit easier to keep everything in line that way.

J.E.B.



On 07/12/2018 05:04 PM, Steven Kruyswijk wrote:
Thanks Paul, and thanks in general for your work in developing Jack, much
appreciated.

Your comments will be very useful I'm sure if or when I get to working with
jack from the command line. For now I've been able to sort out my challenge
with the following:

It turns out that the script that I used to invoke zita-j2a, needed the
aforementioned (but in a slightly different context) ampersand; this script
now works, from within the qjackctl preferences:

#!/bin/bash 
zita-j2a -d hw:CODEC_1 &

Also, I've figured out how to instantiate pure data (or purr data, actually)
with the right audio output settings from this same script. And I've figured
out how to make the connections in qjackctl persistent, and how to execute
qjackctl each time the OS starts - which satisfies my request for a 'Pd at
boot system'. 

I guess you may have interpreted that last goal as a completely minimal
Pd-only setup, which makes me think of Geert Bevin's Erpiam project, which I
would like to check out some time eventually.

Thanks again!





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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Steven Kruyswijk
In reply to this post by Robin Gareus
Hi all,

A little over a year later I'm revisiting this project, where the core
challenge was to connect a second USB audio device and have PD (actually
pd-l2ork) utilize it, with all of this running automatically at boot.

The system has run quite well, but once every while (maybe 15% of the time)
PD fails to start up, with the qjackctl message window saying "Killed". I
haven't been able to find out what's going wrong, perhaps somebody can help
me. Otherwise I am thinking of making a jackd approach, so completely
non-GUI, and perhaps utilizing zalsa_out instead of zita-j2a.

Right now the system works like this:

- in /home/.config/lxsession/LXDE-pi/autostart, @qjackctl is added to
autostart it when the system (Raspbian) boots;
- in qjackctl's Setup page, a script is executed after startup,
- in that script these commands are run:

zita-j2a -d hw:Device_1 &
sleep 2
# to set the system volume:
amixer -c 1 cset numid=6 30
amixer -c 2 cset numid=6 30
sleep 2
pd-l2ork -rt -audiobuf 20 -inchannels 2 -outchannels 4
/home/pi/Documents/patch.pd &

Also in qjackctl's Setup page, Activate Patchbay persistence is checked to
make sure the 4 PD outputs are connected to the 4 out-channels in jack. I
wonder how this would be done on the command line.

I'm having difficulty in experimenting with zalsa_out; the example commands
that Robin Gareus suggested earlier don't seem to be valid on my system...
also I can't find any documentation on either zalsa or the -I option that he
mentioned:


Robin Gareus wrote

> Is there a reason why you do want the external clients instead of using
> jack1's built-in version of zita-ajbridge?
>
>   jackd \
>     -I CARDNAME:zalsa_out/-dhw:CARD \
>     -I CARDNAME:zalsa_in/-dhw:CARD  \
>     -dalsa  ...
>
>
> In your case try something like
>
>  jackd -I alsa-playback:zalsa_in/-dhw:CODEC_1 -dalsa -dhw:PCH -r48000
> -p1024 -n2

If anyone has any suggestions and/or pointers for me what to try or where to
find more info, that would be great. Thanks in advance.




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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Steven Kruyswijk
Ah... I only now realize that I need to utilize jackd1. Raspbian comes with
jackd2 as standard.



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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Paul Davis
On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 1:08 PM Steven Kruyswijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ah... I only now realize that I need to utilize jackd1. Raspbian comes with
jackd2 as standard.


jack1 can't do anything that jack2 can't do (with respect to this problem).

it's just that the zalsa_{in,out} functionality is implemented as an internal client in jack1, which makes it easier to invoke directly from the command given to start the JACK server.

you can do the same thing using the separate zalsa_{inlout} clients with jack2.


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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Winfried Ritsch
Yes jackd2 works perfectly, I did it some years ago with systemd scripts ,

Warning: I am not a specialist in systemd, and also I didnt know if it is
better jackd as dbus-run-session or systemd dbus script.

Anyhow better, use User-session:  A better way to start/stop applications is
to use "user sessions" (systemd --user) and not system-wide service, but didnt
change since it worked as before.

maybe this helps, comments are appreciated.

mfg
 winfried


Am Dienstag, 1. Oktober 2019, 21:54:03 CEST schrieb Paul Davis:

> On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 1:08 PM Steven Kruyswijk <[hidden email]>
>
> wrote:
> > Ah... I only now realize that I need to utilize jackd1. Raspbian comes
> > with
> > jackd2 as standard.
>
> jack1 can't do anything that jack2 can't do (with respect to this problem).
>
> it's just that the zalsa_{in,out} functionality is implemented as an
> internal client in jack1, which makes it easier to invoke directly from the
> command given to start the JACK server.
>
> you can do the same thing using the separate zalsa_{inlout} clients with
> jack2.

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Institut 17 Elektronische Musik und Akustik
Inffeldgasse 10/III,    8010 Graz, Austria
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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Joakim Hernberg-2
In reply to this post by Steven Kruyswijk
On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 12:13:15 -0700 (MST)
Steven Kruyswijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ah... I only now realize that I need to utilize jackd1. Raspbian
> comes with jackd2 as standard.

IIRC jack2 can do this too, but it doesn't use the same command line
parms, rather you'd have to run "jack_load audioadapter". I'm pretty
sure this can be automated but don't remember the details.

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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Paul Davis


On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 10:42 AM Joakim Hernberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 12:13:15 -0700 (MST)
Steven Kruyswijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ah... I only now realize that I need to utilize jackd1. Raspbian
> comes with jackd2 as standard.

IIRC jack2 can do this too, but it doesn't use the same command line
parms, rather you'd have to run "jack_load audioadapter". I'm pretty
sure this can be automated but don't remember the details.

Not so. zita_ajbridge (zita_a2j and zita_j2a) can both be used by jack1 and jack2.

I was using jack1's builtin version of zita_a2j but found that it cannot recover from xruns as well as the current version of zita_a2j. Consequently, I have this line in the "execute script after startup" section of qjackctl:

    zita-a2j -j desktop -d jca -r %r -p %p &

and then "killall zita-a2j" in the "execute script on shutdown" section.

Maybe one day I or someone else will update the version of the code in jack1 to match the current zita_ajbridge release.



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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Joakim Hernberg-2
On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 11:22:14 -0600
Paul Davis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > IIRC jack2 can do this too, but it doesn't use the same command line
> > parms, rather you'd have to run "jack_load audioadapter". I'm pretty
> > sure this can be automated but don't remember the details.
>
> Not so. zita_ajbridge (zita_a2j and zita_j2a) can both be used by
> jack1 and jack2.

What I meant is that JACK2 also has functionality to connect to several
sound cards, but it's enabled differently than the JACK1 builtin
client.  Of course zita_ajbridge can alternatively be used with both
versions of JACK.

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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Brent Busby
Joakim Hernberg <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 11:22:14 -0600
> Paul Davis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> > IIRC jack2 can do this too, but it doesn't use the same command line
>> > parms, rather you'd have to run "jack_load audioadapter". I'm pretty
>> > sure this can be automated but don't remember the details.
>>
>> Not so. zita_ajbridge (zita_a2j and zita_j2a) can both be used by
>> jack1 and jack2.
>
> What I meant is that JACK2 also has functionality to connect to several
> sound cards, but it's enabled differently than the JACK1 builtin
> client.  Of course zita_ajbridge can alternatively be used with both
> versions of JACK.
This is something I'm interested in doing, but I've not looked into
whether it's possible or what would be necessary -- using Jack 2 with
multiple interfaces.

I'd like to record drums with a track per mic, but on an 8-piece set
with a hi-hat mic and two overheads, that's a lot of inputs.  (I have a
mixer that can provide mic preamps and line level direct outs per
channel, so preamps aren't the problem, just quantity of analog ins on
the computer side.)  My Multiface-II only has eight analog inputs, but I
also have a Babyface Pro which could possibly offer more.  Is there a
way I could use them both simultaneously with Jack 2?  Could that be
setup from preferences in QJackCtl somehow, or from some other frontend?

--
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-- Amadeus/  -- +  styles of music are never disturbed without
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-- Recording -- +  institutions."    --Plato, "Republic"
----------------+ ===============================================

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Re: How to automatically start zita-j2a/a2j with jack?

Paul Davis


On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 11:47 AM Brent Busby <[hidden email]> wrote:
Joakim Hernberg <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 11:22:14 -0600
> Paul Davis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> > IIRC jack2 can do this too, but it doesn't use the same command line
>> > parms, rather you'd have to run "jack_load audioadapter". I'm pretty
>> > sure this can be automated but don't remember the details.
>>
>> Not so. zita_ajbridge (zita_a2j and zita_j2a) can both be used by
>> jack1 and jack2.
>
> What I meant is that JACK2 also has functionality to connect to several
> sound cards, but it's enabled differently than the JACK1 builtin
> client.  Of course zita_ajbridge can alternatively be used with both
> versions of JACK.

This is something I'm interested in doing, but I've not looked into
whether it's possible or what would be necessary -- using Jack 2 with
multiple interfaces.

I'd like to record drums with a track per mic, but on an 8-piece set
with a hi-hat mic and two overheads, that's a lot of inputs.  (I have a
mixer that can provide mic preamps and line level direct outs per
channel, so preamps aren't the problem, just quantity of analog ins on
the computer side.)  My Multiface-II only has eight analog inputs, but I
also have a Babyface Pro which could possibly offer more.  Is there a
way I could use them both simultaneously with Jack 2?  Could that be
setup from preferences in QJackCtl somehow, or from some other frontend?

My email explains how to do that. Also, AFAIK, zita's resampling code is much better than the equivalent in jack2's "audioadapter".

Re-read it, and if it is still not clear, let me know.


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