Monitor for usage with Ardour.

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Monitor for usage with Ardour.

Ralf Mardorf
Hi,

mainly for Ardour usage I want to get rid of my CRT monitor. I wonder
how much difference is between a 300,- € and a 150,- € LCD monitor.

Regarding a chip.de test the  7. best monitor is an Eizo FlexScan EV2450
                         the 47. best monitor is a  LG 24MB56HQ-B
Both are 24" monitors.

                        Eizo FlexScan EV2450    LG 24MB56HQ-B
image quality           89.5                    76.1
features                63.3                    39.6
ergonomics              93.3                    73.8
energy efficiency       99.1                    80.3
overall ranking         86.00                   68.8
price-performance ratio 100                     69
price at reichelt.de    292.00 €                139.00 €

Price difference 292.00 € - 139.00 € = 153.00 €.

Could somebody recommend a monitor <= 300,- €? At the moment I tend to
buy the Eizo or the LG. For usage with Ardour, as well as averaged
desktop usage, IOW office, browser etc..

Regards,
Ralf
--
"Pull a Homer -- to succeed despite idiocy." - The Simpsons
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Re: Monitor for usage with Ardour.

Brent Busby
Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> writes:

> mainly for Ardour usage I want to get rid of my CRT monitor. I wonder
> how much difference is between a 300,- € and a 150,- € LCD monitor.

You still have a CRT??  Wow.  I was one of the last holdouts I knew
getting an LCD panel, and that was ten years ago!  Everyone else I knew
had one way before that.

I remember when LCD's first came out, everyone was raving about how much
better the display was supposed to be, but it was hype at the time.  The
first generation panels were awful and people just couldn't see it
because they were so taken with the new product.  Now, that has
reversed.  It's now pretty hard to find a modern LCD that isn't better
than just about any CRT ever made, even amongst the cheap ones.  And
they are pretty cheap, too.  And you can play games on them without
refresh problems.  And they don't have image consistency problems every
time you turn them on like analog CRT's did with scan geometry, color,
brightness, etc. on each powerup -- they pretty much look the same every
time you run them.  And best of all, they're not aiming an x-ray gun
right at your head and emitting enough EM noise to possibly flip bits in
nearby storage media like CRT's did, especially big CRT's.

Get an LCD.  It's not often that a new technology comes around that
completely whips its predecessor in every way, but LCD really did it to
CRT.

As for which one, I don't have a brand preference, but I'm on the glossy
side of the glossy versus matte war.  I'd rather see true colors.  I
couldn't care less about glare/reflection.  When I started, we had CRT's
with no anti-reflective coating, and people just dealt with it, so that
doesn't bother me as long as I don't feel like there's a film of grime
covering up the colors of my image, which is what matte/anti-glare
finish looks like to me.

> Could somebody recommend a monitor <= 300,- €? At the moment I tend to
> buy the Eizo or the LG. For usage with Ardour, as well as averaged
> desktop usage, IOW office, browser etc..

As far as using Ardour goes, I'd recommend whatever you end up liking,
you get two of them.  DAW's can take lots of desktop space, so a dual
monitor setup is a really good idea.

--
- Brent Busby + ===============================================
                + With the rise of social networking
--  Studio   -- + sites, computers are making people
--  Amadeus  -- + easier to use every day.
----------------+ ===============================================
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Re: Monitor for usage with Ardour.

Ralf Mardorf
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:40:46 -0500, Brent Busby wrote:
>It's now pretty hard to find a modern LCD that isn't better
>than just about any CRT ever made, even amongst the cheap ones.

So to replace even a good CRT, the mentioned 139.00 € LCD would much
likely do as good as the 292.00 € or a more expensive LCD?

>DAW's can take lots of desktop space, so a dual monitor setup is a
>really good idea.

Two monitors could take a lot of "desktop" space, too ;). Actually the
screen size of the CRT is just a little bit too small, to fit a
complete Ardour main window, but I don't need more "virtuell desktop
workspace" for anything else. To create space I might put away my
Atari's SM124 and for testing purpose use the PC's CRT as a second
monitor, once I've got a LCD monitor, but I don't buy two LCD monitors,
especially since I don't have any experiences with them.
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Re: Monitor for usage with Ardour.

Chris Caudle
On Wed, July 26, 2017 12:05 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> So to replace even a good CRT, the mentioned 139.00 € LCD would much
> likely do as good as the 292.00 € or a more expensive LCD?

My experience using high quality monitors is very limited, but the
information I have indicates these would be the primary differences
expected for more expensive monitors:
- better consistency of color between different units
- better ability to calibrate color (for example photographers may use
expensive calibration equipment to make sure monitor color matches
acceptable standard).
- better consistency of color as you move viewing position side to side or
up and down
- better quality if the monitor has to perform conversion from signal
resolution which does not match monitor native resolution

For typical applications but not including video editing or photo editing
I expect the less expensive monitor would be as good.

--
Chris Caudle


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Re: Monitor for usage with Ardour.

Ralf Mardorf
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:54:37 -0500, Chris Caudle wrote:
>For typical applications but not including video editing or photo
>editing I expect the less expensive monitor would be as good.

I've seen a lot of bad LCD monitors, but I don't know how old those
LCD monitors were. For more than a decade I planned to do computer
graphics, but in the end I most of the times used my analog graphic
equipment http://picpaste.com/pics/IMG_0897.1501096476.JPG (it shows
just some of the graphic equipment, but also music equipment, since it
was a template for an Ubuntu Studio graphic, that never was used). IOW
I will focus on making music with the computer and if I should do
computer graphics, I most likely anyway would use sketch software on my
iPad.

There are three issues I fear with cheap LCDs, less good
ergonomics regarding height adjustability and issues regarding
incidence of light, as well as a limited viewing angle. I don't need
excellent colour quality, as long as the colour shouldn't be really
bad, it's ok for my needs.

I guess I'll test one of the cheapest LCDs.
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Re: Monitor for usage with Ardour.

Ralf Mardorf
In reply to this post by Brent Busby
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:40:46 -0500, Brent Busby wrote:
>It's now pretty hard to find a modern LCD that isn't better
>than just about any CRT ever made, even amongst the cheap ones.

Hi,

it wasn't that hard for me to find one :(.

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2017-July/290973.html

Regards,
Ralf
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Re: Monitor for usage with Ardour.

Jannis Achstetter
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf
Hi list,

Am 26.07.2017 um 17:42 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:

> Could somebody recommend a monitor <= 300,- €? At the moment I tend to
> buy the Eizo or the LG. For usage with Ardour, as well as averaged
> desktop usage, IOW office, browser etc..

I don't know how your opinion about that is but I personally would
recommend to buy a used piece of higher priced equipment. The only
downside of this might be a bit higher power consumption but if you used
to have a CRT it should be an improvement anyways. I got myself a used
Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP for about ~200€ several years ago and I'm still
perfectly happy with it.

Since you seem to know german pretty well you might want to have a look
here:
https://www.itsco.de/monitore/tft-lcd-monitore/ab-24-zoll-tft-lcd-monitore

(I'm in no way related to that company, I'm not getting any money to
recommend them :)

Best regards,
        Jannis
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Re: Monitor for usage with Ardour.

Ralf Mardorf
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 22:06:36 +0200, Jannis Achstetter wrote:
>I don't know how your opinion about that is but I personally would
>recommend to buy a used piece of higher priced equipment.
>https://www.itsco.de/monitore/tft-lcd-monitore/ab-24-zoll-tft-lcd-monitore

Hi,

thank you. While I get used to the cheap LG and understand what users
mean, when they claim that even cheap LCD are better than any CRT, I
still guess that CRTs are more pleasant. The LCD has got advantages and
disadvantages, let alone that my LCD has got a dead pixel and regarding
ISO this is ok.

Perhaps I'll send back the LG and get a better one. I consider to get a
used LCD. All CRTs I owned and still those I own, are second hand.

Regards,
Ralf
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Re: Monitor for usage with Ardour.

David Jones
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf
On Jul 30, 2017 10:06, Jannis Achstetter <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi list,
>
> Am 26.07.2017 um 17:42 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
>
> > Could somebody recommend a monitor <= 300,- €? At the moment I tend to
> > buy the Eizo or the LG. For usage with Ardour, as well as averaged
> > desktop usage, IOW office, browser etc..
>
> I don't know how your opinion about that is but I personally would
> recommend to buy a used piece of higher priced equipment. The only
> downside of this might be a bit higher power consumption but if you used
> to have a CRT it should be an improvement anyways. I got myself a used
> Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP for about ~200€ several years ago and I'm still
> perfectly happy with it.
>
> Since you seem to know german pretty well you might want to have a look
> here:
> https://www.itsco.de/monitore/tft-lcd-monitore/ab-24-zoll-tft-lcd-monitore
>
> (I'm in no way related to that company, I'm not getting any money to
> recommend them :)
>
> Best regards,
> Jannis

The Dell 27 inch LED monitors are very good. I saw one listed in this search for US$199:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_13?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=dell+27+inch+monitor&sprefix=Dell+27+inch+%2Caps%2C991&crid=3HTIS7FMWLOCC

David W. Jones
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http://dancingtreefrog.com
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Review/résumé: Monitor for usage with Ardour.

Ralf Mardorf
Hi,

I tested and sent back an LG 24MB56HQ-B for 135,-€ and bought an
EIZO EV2450 for 300,-. I'm testing it since 5 days. Until now I handled
it with kid gloves, just office work, no raw music work, IOW no
accidents, cleaned from dust using a brand-new microfibre cloth for
glasses. For some unknown reason the display already has got an around
2 cm long scratch that is visible by direct sunlight. Nothing happened
and it's already damaged. I wonder what happens to the display when it
gets seriously used. In all the years I never damaged an iPad display
or CRT screens, even not by raw usage or accidents and the LCD's display
is already damaged after 5 days of usage with kid gloves. The mains
plug connector plugged into the monitor doesn't fit tightly. EIZO
support sent me a replacement cable with a different kettle plug, but
the kettle plug still doesn't fit better. The image quality for
pictures is superb, but font rendering is still a PITA. Not only
related to the font issue, the LCD monitor does cause much more
straining than a CRT. It's still like looking at a screen tone. If I
compare the CRT and the LCD I don't miss anything for the CRT, excepted
of the aspect ratio the LCD display provides. Indeed, the image quality
regarding colours and sharpness is better for the LCD display, but the
CRT doesn't cause straining and even weak font rendering is less
unpleasant. Btw. the cheaper LG monitor provided an option to blurry
the image, the more expensive EIZO doesn't provide such an option.
Regarding videos I never noticed screen tearing on a regular basis
before. This seems to be unique for LCDs. The EIZO might provide
options related to video I didn't discovered yet.

The aspect ratio of the LCD is already nice for office work and writing
scripts, so without doubts it will improve Ardour usage a lot, too. The
LCD also doesn't suffer from direct sunlight as much as a CRT. For
watching photos, the image quality most often is better than of a CRT,
there are just issues with thin lines, font rendering and things like
that, making the CRT the better choice. However, eye straining (not only
regarding fonts), for some users perhaps screen tearing (I don't care
about screen tearing at the moment) and the easily to hurt display are
serious issues.

If I wouldn't need 16:9, I would stay with CRTs.

Regards,
Ralf

PS: The syslinux bootloader is a PITA for my dualhead setup. Usually I
turn of the secondary monitor, but let the secondary monitor
connected, even if it's unused. The BIOS displays the same on both
monitors, but syslinux displays the menu only on the secondary monitor,
as long as it is connected, even if it's turned off.
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