Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

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Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

jonetsu@teksavvy.com
Hello,

This is a fast-paced 'organic techno' (of sorts) synth track.  It was
fun to mix.

https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes

Unfortunately the bass was mostly eaten by soundcloud.  Almost sounds
AM-like. I'll have to figure this one out when mixing: why is the bass
largely diminished on soundcloud and how to compensate, if possible,
for this.

Cheers.
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Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

Roger E
On 28/09/17 14:09, jonetsu wrote:

> Hello,
>
> This is a fast-paced 'organic techno' (of sorts) synth track.  It was
> fun to mix.
>
> https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes
>
> Unfortunately the bass was mostly eaten by soundcloud.  Almost sounds
> AM-like. I'll have to figure this one out when mixing: why is the bass
> largely diminished on soundcloud and how to compensate, if possible,
> for this.
>
> Cheers.
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>
Not usually quite my style but sounds pretty good. Some tracks like this
are boring due to being the same all the way through, but this has
enough progression to keep it it interesting.

I'm not sure how much bass you intended to have but it sounds fat
through my EVE SC205 monitors, and I had to listen again with AT-M50X
headphones which confirmed the fatness. Neither has deep sub-bass
response though.

Cheers

Roger

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Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

jonetsu@teksavvy.com
On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 17:07:27 +1000
Roger <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes

> Not usually quite my style but sounds pretty good. Some tracks like
> this are boring due to being the same all the way through, but this
> has enough progression to keep it it interesting.

Thanks for the comment !
 
> I'm not sure how much bass you intended to have but it sounds fat
> through my EVE SC205 monitors, and I had to listen again with AT-M50X
> headphones which confirmed the fatness. Neither has deep sub-bass
> response though.

There's something I'm not sure about.  I will do further tests.  Thanks
for the feedback.

Cheers.
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Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

Be
In reply to this post by jonetsu@teksavvy.com
Soundcloud uses 128 kbps MP3, so extreme highs and lows will be
sacrificed. If you want to distribute your tracks as you hear them when
you're making them, make them available as lossless downloads. Bandcamp
is a good option for that.

On 09/27/2017 11:09 PM, jonetsu wrote:

> Hello,
>
> This is a fast-paced 'organic techno' (of sorts) synth track.  It was
> fun to mix.
>
> https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes
>
> Unfortunately the bass was mostly eaten by soundcloud.  Almost sounds
> AM-like. I'll have to figure this one out when mixing: why is the bass
> largely diminished on soundcloud and how to compensate, if possible,
> for this.
>
> Cheers.
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>
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Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

jonetsu@teksavvy.com
On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 16:49:28 -0500
Be <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Soundcloud uses 128 kbps MP3, so extreme highs and lows will be
> sacrificed. If you want to distribute your tracks as you hear them
> when you're making them, make them available as lossless downloads.
> Bandcamp is a good option for that.

Thanks for the suggestion !

Cheers.
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Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

Paul Davis
In reply to this post by Be
There is no significant effect of MP3 encoing bitrate on low end frequency.

https://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/pm/MP3-128k.htm
https://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/pm/MP3-160k.htm


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Be <[hidden email]> wrote:
Soundcloud uses 128 kbps MP3, so extreme highs and lows will be sacrificed. If you want to distribute your tracks as you hear them when you're making them, make them available as lossless downloads. Bandcamp is a good option for that.


On 09/27/2017 11:09 PM, jonetsu wrote:
Hello,

This is a fast-paced 'organic techno' (of sorts) synth track.  It was
fun to mix.

https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes

Unfortunately the bass was mostly eaten by soundcloud.  Almost sounds
AM-like. I'll have to figure this one out when mixing: why is the bass
largely diminished on soundcloud and how to compensate, if possible,
for this.

Cheers.
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Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

Be
Thanks for the correction. I didn't realize MP3 only cut the high
frequencies. Regardless, I still recommend publishing music where fans
can get it in FLAC.

On 09/28/2017 05:30 PM, Paul Davis wrote:

> There is no significant effect of MP3 encoing bitrate on low end frequency.
>
> https://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/pm/MP3-128k.htm
> https://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/pm/MP3-160k.htm
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Be <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> wrote:
>
>     Soundcloud uses 128 kbps MP3, so extreme highs and lows will be
>     sacrificed. If you want to distribute your tracks as you hear them
>     when you're making them, make them available as lossless downloads.
>     Bandcamp is a good option for that.
>
>
>     On 09/27/2017 11:09 PM, jonetsu wrote:
>
>         Hello,
>
>         This is a fast-paced 'organic techno' (of sorts) synth track.
>         It was
>         fun to mix.
>
>         https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes
>         <https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes>
>
>         Unfortunately the bass was mostly eaten by soundcloud.  Almost
>         sounds
>         AM-like. I'll have to figure this one out when mixing: why is
>         the bass
>         largely diminished on soundcloud and how to compensate, if possible,
>         for this.
>
>         Cheers.
>         _______________________________________________
>         Linux-audio-user mailing list
>         [hidden email]
>         <mailto:[hidden email]>
>         https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>         <https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Linux-audio-user mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>     <https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user>
>
>
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Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

Diego Simak-2
In reply to this post by jonetsu@teksavvy.com


El 28 sept. 2017 1:09 AM, "jonetsu" <[hidden email]> escribió:
Hello,

This is a fast-paced 'organic techno' (of sorts) synth track.  It was
fun to mix.

https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes

Unfortunately the bass was mostly eaten by soundcloud.  Almost sounds
AM-like. I'll have to figure this one out when mixing: why is the bass
largely diminished on soundcloud and how to compensate, if possible,
for this.

Cheers.
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Really liked it!

How the drums were made?
Really liked the tribal sort of it.

Thanks for sharing your music.


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Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

Benoît Rouits
In reply to this post by Be
Personally i hear good bass on my setup (simple Sony amp+loudspeakers)
Nice music ! really energnizing !

Le 29/09/2017 à 00:36, Be a écrit :

> Thanks for the correction. I didn't realize MP3 only cut the high
> frequencies. Regardless, I still recommend publishing music where fans
> can get it in FLAC.
>
> On 09/28/2017 05:30 PM, Paul Davis wrote:
>> There is no significant effect of MP3 encoing bitrate on low end
>> frequency.
>>
>> https://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/pm/MP3-128k.htm
>> https://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/pm/MP3-160k.htm
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Be <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     Soundcloud uses 128 kbps MP3, so extreme highs and lows will be
>>     sacrificed. If you want to distribute your tracks as you hear them
>>     when you're making them, make them available as lossless downloads.
>>     Bandcamp is a good option for that.
>>
>>
>>     On 09/27/2017 11:09 PM, jonetsu wrote:
>>
>>         Hello,
>>
>>         This is a fast-paced 'organic techno' (of sorts) synth track.
>>         It was
>>         fun to mix.
>>
>>         https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes
>>         <https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes>
>>
>>         Unfortunately the bass was mostly eaten by soundcloud.  Almost
>>         sounds
>>         AM-like. I'll have to figure this one out when mixing: why is
>>         the bass
>>         largely diminished on soundcloud and how to compensate, if
>> possible,
>>         for this.
>>
>>         Cheers.
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Linux-audio-user mailing list
>>         [hidden email]
>>         <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>         https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>>         <https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Linux-audio-user mailing list
>>     [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>>     <https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
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ORL
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Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

ORL
In reply to this post by jonetsu@teksavvy.com

Hmmm. Those links are pretty "discutable". Telling that 128kbps is OK for mobile and/or non critical material like rock or heavy metal seems to me completely false: have you never heard "swiiiiiiish" in the hi hats of such productions when using low bitrate mp3 (in which I include 128kbps)?

By the way, mp3 works on psycho-acoustics, and is based on the concept of masking frequencies, so using a spectral view to explain that the frequency content is or is not there is a non-sense when the principle lies on the fact that those frequencies wouldn't have been "heard" in the real world when positionned after certain other frequencies.

And I don't think "sacrifying" low and high ends means that low and high ends aren't present, it just means that they are altered, and that you can't check with a spectral view.

Still, I suggest using flac, bandcamp does accept that file format.


Le 29/09/2017 à 00:30, Paul Davis a écrit :
There is no significant effect of MP3 encoing bitrate on low end frequency.

https://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/pm/MP3-128k.htm
https://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/pm/MP3-160k.htm


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Be <[hidden email]> wrote:
Soundcloud uses 128 kbps MP3, so extreme highs and lows will be sacrificed. If you want to distribute your tracks as you hear them when you're making them, make them available as lossless downloads. Bandcamp is a good option for that.


On 09/27/2017 11:09 PM, jonetsu wrote:
Hello,

This is a fast-paced 'organic techno' (of sorts) synth track.  It was
fun to mix.

https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes

Unfortunately the bass was mostly eaten by soundcloud.  Almost sounds
AM-like. I'll have to figure this one out when mixing: why is the bass
largely diminished on soundcloud and how to compensate, if possible,
for this.

Cheers.
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Lossy compression quality etc. [WAS] Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

Lorenzo Sutton


On 29/09/2017 07:27, ORL - AMMD wrote:
> Hmmm. Those links are pretty "discutable". Telling that 128kbps is OK
> for mobile and/or non critical material like rock or heavy metal seems
> to me completely false: have you never heard "swiiiiiiish" in the hi
> hats of such productions when using low bitrate mp3 (in which I include
> 128kbps)?

http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality

>
> By the way, mp3 works on psycho-acoustics, and is based on the concept
> of masking frequencies, so using a spectral view to explain that the
> frequency content is or is not there is a non-sense when the principle
> lies on the fact that those frequencies wouldn't have been "heard" in
> the real world when positionned after certain other frequencies.
>
> And I don't think "sacrifying" low and high ends means that low and high
> ends aren't present, it just means that they are altered, and that you
> can't check with a spectral view.
>
> Still, I suggest using flac, bandcamp does accept that file format.

IMHO:
- FLAC for long-term archiving / preservation (because if you are
archiving big quantities of audio even the ~ 0.5 compression counts...)
- Transparent compression [1] for online streaming / everyday listening.
Better if with an open, non-patent-encumbered format as MP3 is (ogg,
opus, ...)

Opus is pretty remarkable in terms of quality [2] vs. compression
rates... Wonder why it's not spreading faster.

Lorenzo

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_(data_compression)
[2] http://opus-codec.org/

>
>
> Le 29/09/2017 à 00:30, Paul Davis a écrit :
>> There is no significant effect of MP3 encoing bitrate on low end
>> frequency.
>>
>> https://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/pm/MP3-128k.htm
>> https://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/pm/MP3-160k.htm
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Be <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     Soundcloud uses 128 kbps MP3, so extreme highs and lows will be
>>     sacrificed. If you want to distribute your tracks as you hear them
>>     when you're making them, make them available as lossless
>>     downloads. Bandcamp is a good option for that.
>>
>>
>>     On 09/27/2017 11:09 PM, jonetsu wrote:
>>
>>         Hello,
>>
>>         This is a fast-paced 'organic techno' (of sorts) synth track.
>>         It was
>>         fun to mix.
>>
>>         https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes
>>         <https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes>
>>
>>         Unfortunately the bass was mostly eaten by soundcloud.  Almost
>>         sounds
>>         AM-like. I'll have to figure this one out when mixing: why is
>>         the bass
>>         largely diminished on soundcloud and how to compensate, if
>>         possible,
>>         for this.
>>
>>         Cheers.
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Linux-audio-user mailing list
>>         [hidden email]
>>         <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>         https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>>         <https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Linux-audio-user mailing list
>>     [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>>     <https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-audio-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>
>
>
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Re: Lossy compression quality etc. [WAS] Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

Arnold Krille-3
On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 14:38:38 +0200 Lorenzo Sutton
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 29/09/2017 07:27, ORL - AMMD wrote:
> > Hmmm. Those links are pretty "discutable". Telling that 128kbps is
> > OK for mobile and/or non critical material like rock or heavy metal
> > seems to me completely false: have you never heard "swiiiiiiish" in
> > the hi hats of such productions when using low bitrate mp3 (in
> > which I include 128kbps)?  
>
> http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality

Nice test, thanks for the link!

4 out of 6 is not that bad, is it?

- Arnold

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Re: Lossy compression quality etc. [WAS] Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

jonetsu@teksavvy.com
In reply to this post by Lorenzo Sutton
On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 14:38:38 +0200
Lorenzo Sutton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Opus is pretty remarkable in terms of quality [2] vs. compression
> rates... Wonder why it's not spreading faster.

A bit on the subject, youtube has added normalization stats.  It will show
normalization amongst other data.  Right/click on a video, 'Stats for
nerds'.  Taking a video I listened-to recently, "Resistance is futile"
by Laibach, the following is shown:

Volume/Normalized   100%/62% (contents loudness 4.2 dB)
Codecs   vp9 (244) / opus (251)



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Re: Lossy compression quality etc. [WAS] Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

Chris Caudle
In reply to this post by Arnold Krille-3
On Fri, September 29, 2017 10:42 am, Arnold Krille wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 14:38:38 +0200 Lorenzo Sutton
>> http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality
> 4 out of 6 is not that bad, is it?

Same for me.  I count it as 4.5 out of 6, on one I confused the 320kb/s
and the uncompressed, but 320kb/s is considered to be relatively high
quality.  My room has too much noise, perhaps I should try again with
headphones.

I thought the Suzanne Vega solo vocal would be difficult, because of the
limited frequency range of a solo voice.  It seems like the limited
dynamic and frequency range would give the most options for the compressor
to assign bandwidth, but that one I determined correctly.

The Neal Young selection I confused the uncompressed and 320kb/s version;
not so bad considering the age of the source material, it was probably
limited in high frequency content to begin with because of the age of the
analog tapes.

I was completely wrong on the Coldplay selection (I picked the 128kb/s
version as the "best"), all of the versions sounded so bad I decided it
must have been some sort of odd artistic choice, every version was
muffled, distorted, and synthetic sounding to me.  Hard to understand why
someone would do that with 24 bit digital recording capability and budget
for quality recording gear. The drums sounded like they were made from
cardboard, or were in a different room with the door closed.

--
Chris Caudle


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Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

Jeanette C.
In reply to this post by jonetsu@teksavvy.com
Sep 28 2017, jonetsu has written:
...
> https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes
...
Hi there,
thanks for sharing this. It was fun. Organic techno? I had expected
something quite different. :) It felt atmospheric in a way, like it
belonged to a fast-paced scene.

One question that has been bugging me, all the time I listened to it:
what's the name of the arpeggiated patch that comes in around 1:13?

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
* website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
* SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c

I know you're out there and I know that you still care <3
(Britney Spears)
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Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

jonetsu@teksavvy.com
On Sun, 1 Oct 2017 13:56:44 +0200 (CEST)
"Jeanette C." <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/too-late-for-goodbyes 

Thanks for the comment !  I'm still stuck with finding a genre tag.
For me it's all music.  I gather the 'techno' tag did not apply.  I
tried to shift it somehow by adding 'organic' ...

> One question that has been bugging me, all the time I listened to it:
> what's the name of the arpeggiated patch that comes in around 1:13?

The patch name is 'Hothouse' from the very good 'Botanica Midnight'
soundset for Zebra.

Here is an overview of a sister soundset, 'Botanica Nightfall':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKdd7wPzjKA

The range and inspiration of such sounds is found for example with the
Russian duo Koan, as in "When the Silence is Speaking" :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYOV_BfJuvs

Unfortunately the person who uploaded that (not Koan themselves) has
put advertisements.  Better to download it, using youtube-dl for
instance, if you're interested.

I like Koan much.  The Russian artists, not the popular act that goes by
the same name.

Cheers.


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Re: Music: Too Late for Goodbyes ?

Jeanette C.
Oct 1 2017, jonetsu has written:
...
> The patch name is 'Hothouse' from the very good 'Botanica Midnight'
> soundset for Zebra.
...
There certainly is an emerging picture. :) I have to seek out the
ringtone that this reminds me of and find its name. :)
>
> Here is an overview of a sister soundset, 'Botanica Nightfall':
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKdd7wPzjKA
Thanks, I'm always interested in new sounds. Never mind that they are
made for a certain instrument, with a little fantasy a lot of
instruments might do. :)
...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYOV_BfJuvs
>
> Unfortunately the person who uploaded that (not Koan themselves) has
> put advertisements.  Better to download it, using youtube-dl for
> instance,
...
Luckily I always use it. :) Including links to soundcloud and similar
platforms. Much easier than to figure out which browser will give me
access to the embedded content. :)
...

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
* website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
* SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c

I know you're out there and I know that you still care <3
(Britney Spears)
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