Parorama T6

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Parorama T6

Will Godfrey
I bought this keyboard controller based on the advert stating it was class
compliant, plug and play, Linux compatible.

However, I found that it starts up with a firmware update message, and apart
from Note On, Note Off, Channel Pressure, none of the controls work, not even
the ones designated for manually setting the others.
On conacting nektar for support, it took over 2 days for them to tell me that I
had to install the firmware.
WTF!
I've never heard of any hardware being effectively dead until you install
firmware. What's more, so much for supporting Linux, the software to install
the firmware is Windows or MacOs - nothing else.

I tried using Wine to get this done, but the software reports that it can't find
the keyboard. This is on Devuan Boewulf, which carries Wine V4.0.
I also tried grabbing a more recent version of Wine from wineHQ, but devuan
refused reporting an uninstallable dependency.

I'm very reluctant to try to install a VM, I'm running out of storage space,
and this is a working machine - I can't risk messing it about too much.

If it weren't for the pandemic lockdown situation I might have been able to go
to a Windows using friend for help, but this is out of the question for the
forseeable future.

Any suggestions?

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
http://yoshimi.github.io
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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Re: Parorama T6

Bob van der Poel-3
Not that this helps you, but the Amazon.com page for this unit states at the bottom of the "features" list:

Firmware update required on either Windows or Mac OSX. Firmware not update-able on Linux.

Don't know where you got the unit ... but, can you just send it back?

On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 9:42 AM Will Godfrey <[hidden email]> wrote:
I bought this keyboard controller based on the advert stating it was class
compliant, plug and play, Linux compatible.

However, I found that it starts up with a firmware update message, and apart
from Note On, Note Off, Channel Pressure, none of the controls work, not even
the ones designated for manually setting the others.
On conacting nektar for support, it took over 2 days for them to tell me that I
had to install the firmware.
WTF!
I've never heard of any hardware being effectively dead until you install
firmware. What's more, so much for supporting Linux, the software to install
the firmware is Windows or MacOs - nothing else.

I tried using Wine to get this done, but the software reports that it can't find
the keyboard. This is on Devuan Boewulf, which carries Wine V4.0.
I also tried grabbing a more recent version of Wine from wineHQ, but devuan
refused reporting an uninstallable dependency.

I'm very reluctant to try to install a VM, I'm running out of storage space,
and this is a working machine - I can't risk messing it about too much.

If it weren't for the pandemic lockdown situation I might have been able to go
to a Windows using friend for help, but this is out of the question for the
forseeable future.

Any suggestions?

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
http://yoshimi.github.io
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
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--

**** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars ****
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: [hidden email]
WWW:   http://www.mellowood.ca

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Re: Parorama T6

Will Godfrey
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 09:57:37 -0700
Bob van der Poel <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Not that this helps you, but the Amazon.com page for this unit states at
>the bottom of the "features" list:
>
>*Firmware update required on either Windows or Mac OSX. Firmware not
>>> update-able on Linux. *

I got it from ScanUK, and although I looked very carefully I didn't see any
mention of this. Also at the very bottom:

System Requirements
• Panorama T4/T6: USB class compliant (no driver needed) works with Windows XP,
Vista, 7, 8, 10 or higher. Mac OS X 10.5 or higher, Linux (Ubuntu)

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
http://yoshimi.github.io
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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Re: Parorama T6

Sam Kuper
On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 06:55:19PM +0000, Will Godfrey wrote:
> I got it from ScanUK, and although I looked very carefully I didn't
> see any mention of this. Also at the very bottom:
>
> System Requirements
> • Panorama T4/T6: USB class compliant (no driver needed) works with
> Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10 or higher. Mac OS X 10.5 or higher, Linux
> (Ubuntu)

- You've tried Wine.  That didn't work.

- You've considered a Windows VM, but it isn't practical for you.

- You've considered help from a friend, but lockdown rules that out.

So either give it as a gift to someone who would use it (but do you
really want them to be lumbered with such a user-unfriendly device?), or
return it.

On the latter front: ScanUK has missold you the keyboard.  It is what I
think UK consumer law characterises as "significantly not as described
[by the seller]".

So, you should be well within your consumer rights to return it to Scan
for a full refund.  Ensure that Scan will refund your original shipping
costs (if any), AND the cost of returning the keyboard to them.  Once
you have confirmation of that, send the keyboard to them back using a
tracked service, insured to the value of the keyboard, to be on the safe
side: https://www.royalmail.com/price-finder

Another advantage of returning it is that it might prompt Scan to stop
misselling it to other people.

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Re: Parorama T6

Will Godfrey
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 22:01:43 +0000
Sam Kuper <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 06:55:19PM +0000, Will Godfrey wrote:
>> I got it from ScanUK, and although I looked very carefully I didn't
>> see any mention of this. Also at the very bottom:
>>
>> System Requirements
>> • Panorama T4/T6: USB class compliant (no driver needed) works with
>> Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10 or higher. Mac OS X 10.5 or higher, Linux
>> (Ubuntu)  
>
>- You've tried Wine.  That didn't work.
>
>- You've considered a Windows VM, but it isn't practical for you.
>
>- You've considered help from a friend, but lockdown rules that out.
>
>So either give it as a gift to someone who would use it (but do you
>really want them to be lumbered with such a user-unfriendly device?), or
>return it.
>
>On the latter front: ScanUK has missold you the keyboard.  It is what I
>think UK consumer law characterises as "significantly not as described
>[by the seller]".
>
>So, you should be well within your consumer rights to return it to Scan
>for a full refund.  Ensure that Scan will refund your original shipping
>costs (if any), AND the cost of returning the keyboard to them.  Once
>you have confirmation of that, send the keyboard to them back using a
>tracked service, insured to the value of the keyboard, to be on the safe
>side: https://www.royalmail.com/price-finder
>
>Another advantage of returning it is that it might prompt Scan to stop
>misselling it to other people.
>
Hi Sam,
Thanks for the support, but it is not Scan that are at fault here. I've had
dealings with them before and In fact they would probably accept it back with a
full refund if I ask.

I originally got my info from the manufacturers website, and as per my usual
method went straight to the specification, and it is there that it says class
compatible no driver needed. Most of the rest of the fluff I just skimmed over
and, going back to it (with hindsight) there is a line buried saying the
software is uninstallable from Linux, but it is right in the middle of all the
stuff about DAW integration (which I have no interest in).
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
http://yoshimi.github.io
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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Re: Parorama T6 - SOLVED

Will Godfrey
Managed to find a neighbour willing to help.

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
http://yoshimi.github.io
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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Re: Parorama T6

Marc Joliet
In reply to this post by Will Godfrey
Am Samstag, 13. Februar 2021, 17:42:18 CET schrieb Will Godfrey:
> However, I found that it starts up with a firmware update message, and apart
> from Note On, Note Off, Channel Pressure, none of the controls work, not
> even the ones designated for manually setting the others.
> On conacting nektar for support, it took over 2 days for them to tell me
> that I had to install the firmware.
> WTF!
> I've never heard of any hardware being effectively dead until you install
> firmware. What's more, so much for supporting Linux, the software to install
> the firmware is Windows or MacOs - nothing else.

I wonder if it's worth asking them to consider supporting LVFS (https://
fwupd.org/).  Support for it seems to be growing at a healthy pace (e.g., Dell
and Logitech support it), and I think most major distributions install fwupd
by default now.

--
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup
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Re: Parorama T6 - SOLVED

Bob van der Poel-3
In reply to this post by Will Godfrey
Just curious ... but is this a "one time only" firmware install or does it need to be often? If it is "just once" why would the vendor or manufacturer not do this to start with. Odd?

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 4:13 AM Will Godfrey <[hidden email]> wrote:
Managed to find a neighbour willing to help.

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
http://yoshimi.github.io
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
_______________________________________________
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--

**** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars ****
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: [hidden email]
WWW:   http://www.mellowood.ca

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Re: Parorama T6

Will Godfrey
In reply to this post by Marc Joliet
On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 17:23:24 +0100
Marc Joliet <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Am Samstag, 13. Februar 2021, 17:42:18 CET schrieb Will Godfrey:
>> However, I found that it starts up with a firmware update message, and apart
>> from Note On, Note Off, Channel Pressure, none of the controls work, not
>> even the ones designated for manually setting the others.
>> On conacting nektar for support, it took over 2 days for them to tell me
>> that I had to install the firmware.
>> WTF!
>> I've never heard of any hardware being effectively dead until you install
>> firmware. What's more, so much for supporting Linux, the software to install
>> the firmware is Windows or MacOs - nothing else.  
>
>I wonder if it's worth asking them to consider supporting LVFS (https://
>fwupd.org/).  Support for it seems to be growing at a healthy pace (e.g., Dell
>and Logitech support it), and I think most major distributions install fwupd
>by default now.
>
>--
>Marc Joliet
>--
>"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
>don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup
>_______________________________________________
>Linux-audio-user mailing list
>[hidden email]
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I might suggest it, but I get the feeling they won't be interested.

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
http://yoshimi.github.io
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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Re: Parorama T6 - SOLVED

Will Godfrey
In reply to this post by Bob van der Poel-3
It would be 'one time' for many people I suspect. I've had a quick look at the
manual settings - doable but not easy, but that's true for lots of kit.
However, the defaults all look reasonable so I'll probably leave them as they
are and just MIDI-learn the controls I want. Much quicker, and I can save these
with a project and have different combinations for every other one.

However, their firmware can include DAW management software, so those using a
variety might want to change it from time to time, or upgrade to new versions.

Certainly there is no reason for them not putting this basic firmware in place.
Indeed, if it was my design, I'd use that as a bootloader for more
sophisticated software that could then be loaded using standard protocols.

I notice that even now, although it shows up by name in qjackctl, lsusb just
gives the anonymous IDs.

>Just curious ... but is this a "one time only" firmware install or does it
>need to be often? If it is "just once" why would the vendor or manufacturer
>not do this to start with. Odd?
>
>On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 4:13 AM Will Godfrey <[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>
>> Managed to find a neighbour willing to help.
>>
>> --
>> Will J Godfrey
>> http://www.musically.me.uk
>> http://yoshimi.github.io
>> Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
>> Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-audio-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>>  
>
>


--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
http://yoshimi.github.io
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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Re: Parorama T6 - SOLVED

Bengt Gördén-3
In reply to this post by Will Godfrey
On 2021-02-14 12:13, Will Godfrey wrote:
> Managed to find a neighbour willing to help.

A little bit late into the game here but it might have worked with ReactOS and
the live-iso (on a cd/usb) and then run the nkupdate.


https://reactos.org/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/reactos/


--
/bengan
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Re: Parorama T6 - SOLVED

Will Godfrey
On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 22:39:20 +0100
Bengt Gördén <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On 2021-02-14 12:13, Will Godfrey wrote:
>> Managed to find a neighbour willing to help.  
>
>A little bit late into the game here but it might have worked with ReactOS and
>the live-iso (on a cd/usb) and then run the nkupdate.
>
>
>https://reactos.org/
>https://sourceforge.net/projects/reactos/
>
Iv didn't realise it was available as a live-iso.
Worth remembering!


--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
http://yoshimi.github.io
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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