Re: Updated to kernel 4.4.1, missing module snd_ice1712 -> no more envy24 support?
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Re: Updated to kernel 4.4.1, missing module snd_ice1712 -> no more envy24 support?
 
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On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 6:36 PM, Takashi Sakamoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
npm@gnuport:~$ grep SND_ICE /boot/config-4.4.1-040401-generic CONFIG_SND_ICE1724=m > change enabling CONFIG_ZONE_DEVICE > (Kernel 4.4 amd64) For Ubuntu kernels 4.4.X (e.g. for upcoming 16.04 LTS), the above bug and missing snd-ice1712.ko appears to be the problem. I've added some comments to the above, and also linked the bug to application mudita24(1) that is disabled by lack of snd_ice1712 module in the 4.4 kernel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1534647/comments/12 The ice1712 .ko file is missing in 4.4.X: $ ls -l /lib/modules/4.4.1-040401-generic/kernel/sound/pci/ice1712/ total 256 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 247046 Jan 31 12:48 snd-ice1724.ko -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9230 Jan 31 12:48 snd-ice17xx-ak4xxx.ko In the 4.3.X kernel, snd-ice1712.ko is present and envy24 soundcards work: $ ls -l /lib/modules/4.3.0-040300-generic/kernel/sound/pci/ice1712/ total 376 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 120838 Nov 2 07:01 snd-ice1712.ko -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 246270 Nov 2 07:01 snd-ice1724.ko -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9230 Nov 2 07:01 snd-ice17xx-ak4xxx.ko If this doesn't get fixed, people upgrading to Ubuntu 16.04 LTS will not have use of soundcards such as M-Audio Delta 1010, Delta 1010LT, Delta DiO 2496, Delta 66, Delta 44, Delta 410 and Audiophile 2496. Terratec EWS 88MT, EWS 88D, EWX 24/96, DMX 6Fire, Phase 88. Hoontech Soundtrack DSP 24, Soundtrack DSP 24 Value, Soundtrack DSP 24 Media 7.1. Event Electronics EZ8. Digigram VX442. Lionstracs, Mediastaton. Terrasoniq TS 88. Roland/Edirol DA-2496. To the "end user", application mudita24(1) will exit inexplicably, printing only a message to stdout they're unlikely to see: $ mudita24 No ICE1712 cards found PS: this message brought to you by Skylake, which necessitates a > 4.3 kernel :-) PPS: anybody have a pointer to a 4.4.1-compiled snd-ice1712.ko they coaxed out of the build by themselves?
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thanks for the warning!
I own a Delta1010, still working well (latency = 1.3 ms). It is getting harder to find a modern mobo with PCI, and not being able to update to 16.04 may force me to look for a completely new system :( |
Re: Updated to kernel 4.4.1, missing module snd_ice1712 -> no more envy24 support?
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Am Dienstag, den 16.02.2016, 02:19 -0700 schrieb Menno:
> thanks for the warning! > I own a Delta1010, still working well (latency = 1.3 ms). It is > getting > harder to find a modern mobo with PCI, and not being able to update > to 16.04 > may force me to look for a completely new system :( Modern Intel-based mobos only offer PCI-support via PCI-Express which doesn't work well with low latency. But if you look at the AMD side, there are still several mobos that will support PCI directly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_chipsets#Fusion_controller_hu bs_.28FCH.29 Greets! Mitsch _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user |
Re: Updated to kernel 4.4.1, missing module snd_ice1712 -> no more envy24 support?
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In reply to this post by Menno
On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 1:19 AM, Menno <[hidden email]> wrote: thanks for the warning! FYI, I had no problem using 14.04LTS with the 4.3.0 generic ( http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.3-wily/ ) Kernel and two working Envy24 soundcards (M-Audio Delta-66 w/ Omni-IO breakout box, and the awesome Terratec DMX6Fire with its breakout box housing a Yamaha Db-50XG synth card for qxgedit(1) :-)) . The problem with missing ice1712 arose in trying out the 4.4.0 and 4.4.1 kernels. The ASUS Z-170K mobo I'm using supports two PCI cards: https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z170-K/specifications/ ... and works well with Linux, IMHO. -- Niels _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user |
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On February 16, 2016 12:14:24 PM Niels Mayer wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 1:19 AM, Menno <[hidden email]> wrote: > > thanks for the warning! > > I own a Delta1010, still working well (latency = 1.3 ms). It is getting > > harder to find a modern mobo with PCI, and not being able to update to > > 16.04 > > may force me to look for a completely new system :( > > FYI, I had no problem using 14.04LTS with the 4.3.0 generic ( > http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.3-wily/ ) Kernel and two > working Envy24 soundcards (M-Audio Delta-66 w/ Omni-IO breakout box, and > the awesome Terratec DMX6Fire with its breakout box housing a Yamaha > Db-50XG synth card for qxgedit(1) :-)) . The problem with missing ice1712 > arose in trying out the 4.4.0 and 4.4.1 kernels. > > The ASUS Z-170K mobo I'm using supports two PCI cards: > https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z170-K/specifications/ ... and works > well with Linux, IMHO. > > -- Niels > http://www.nielsmayer.com Hi Niels. Sounds disturbing. I would be completely lost without this driver. Just wanted to mention at some point we might want to move the mudita24 project, that we both worked on, from google code to gihub. But it seems that it has already been moved to OpenHub? Thanks. Tim. _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user |
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In reply to this post by Niels Mayer
On 17/02/16 07:14, Niels Mayer wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 1:19 AM, Menno <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > thanks for the warning! > I own a Delta1010, still working well (latency = 1.3 ms). It is > getting > harder to find a modern mobo with PCI, and not being able to > update to 16.04 > may force me to look for a completely new system :( > > > FYI, I had no problem using 14.04LTS with the 4.3.0 generic ( > http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.3-wily/ > <http://kernel.ubuntu.com/%7Ekernel-ppa/mainline/v4.3-wily/> ) Kernel > and two working Envy24 soundcards (M-Audio Delta-66 w/ Omni-IO > breakout box, and the awesome Terratec DMX6Fire with its breakout box > housing a Yamaha Db-50XG synth card for qxgedit(1) :-)) . The problem > with missing ice1712 arose in trying out the 4.4.0 and 4.4.1 kernels. > > The ASUS Z-170K mobo I'm using supports two PCI cards: > https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z170-K/specifications/ ... and > works well with Linux, IMHO. > -- Niels > http://www.nielsmayer.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user siduction 4.4.0. I will upgrade to 4.4.1 later and report. roger@brain:~$ uname -r 4.4.0-towo.2-siduction-amd64 roger@brain:~$ lsmod |grep ice1712 snd_ice1712 57651 3 snd_cs8427 6889 1 snd_ice1712 snd_i2c 3769 2 snd_ice1712,snd_cs8427 snd_ice17xx_ak4xxx 2412 1 snd_ice1712 snd_ak4xxx_adda 7430 2 snd_ice1712,snd_ice17xx_ak4xxx snd_mpu401_uart 5827 1 snd_ice1712 snd_ac97_codec 105580 1 snd_ice1712 snd_pcm 76056 7 snd_ice1712,snd_ac97_codec,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_codec,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_core snd 56146 23 snd_ice1712,snd_ac97_codec,snd_hwdep,snd_timer,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_i2c,snd_pcm,snd_rawmidi,snd_hda_codec,snd_ak4xxx_adda,snd_hda_intel,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_seq_device,snd_cs8427 _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user |
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In reply to this post by Niels Mayer
On Tue, 16 Feb 2016, Niels Mayer wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 1:19 AM, Menno <[hidden email]> wrote: > thanks for the warning! > I own a Delta1010, still working well (latency = 1.3 ms). It is > getting > harder to find a modern mobo with PCI, and not being able to > update to 16.04 > may force me to look for a completely new system :( > > > FYI, I had no problem using 14.04LTS with the 4.3.0 generic > ( http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.3-wily/ ) Kernel and two > working Envy24 soundcards (M-Audio Delta-66 w/ Omni-IO breakout box, and the > awesome Terratec DMX6Fire with its breakout box housing a Yamaha Db-50XG > synth card for qxgedit(1) :-)) . The problem with missing ice1712 arose in > trying out the 4.4.0 and 4.4.1 kernels. just fine. The new feature that kills PCI has been removed in this kernel. Generic will still have no sound. mudita24 also works. I do not know if this has an upstream version for the debian archives as well or not. (I am testing ubuntustudio 16.04) -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user |
Re: Updated to kernel 4.4.1, missing module snd_ice1712 -> no more envy24 support?
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In reply to this post by Tim-2
On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Tim E. Real <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Niels. Note that 4.3.5 is considered a kernel.org "stable" release and works fine with Skylake and Envy24. I'm using it now. For a more detailed characterization of which Ubuntu kernels are missing Envy24 support see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1534647/comments/15 Also, latest news: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1534647/comments/16 Just wanted to mention at some point we might want to I haven't customized it or added anybody to the project yet, so let me know what you need and your github credentials. But it seems that it has already been moved to OpenHub? source as http://mudita24.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/mudita24 (TODO, send an email to google telling them to redirect mudita24 once things are well settled). Feel free to update them on the new project location. Likewise for any other distros having mudita24. I've already notified Ubuntu of the new upstream, and seem to have assigned myself to be package maintainter for it in the process. If anybody has any hints of what I'm supposed to do as Ubuntu maintainer of mudita24, let me know! :-) -- Niels http://www.nielsmayer.com _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user |
Re: Updated to kernel 4.4.1, missing module snd_ice1712 -> no more envy24 support?
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In reply to this post by Niels Mayer
On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Takashi Sakamoto <[hidden email]> wrote: Why did you add additional comments to the fixed-released bug? It's not within my intension to mention about the bug. I think your behaviour is unwelcome to developers. You should have used button of 'This bug affects you' or something similar... I'm not sure what the point of your lecture was/is. But thank you for initially pointing me to the bug-report where my "inappropriate" comments got this bug correctly resolved. Furthermore, hopefully this means people updating to 16.04LTS in the near future will still have use of their Envy24 sound cards. The end result is that the problem was acknowledged, a new build was done, and the issue was resolved. Specifically, I can now confirm working ICE1712 cards, and associated mudita24(1) application, on 4.4.0-6-generic #21-Ubuntu SMP Tue Feb 16 20:32:27 UTC (*).Working Audio: card 0: DMX6Fire [TerraTec DMX6Fire], device 0: ICE1712 multi [ICE1712 multi] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 card 3: M66 [M Audio Delta 66], device 0: ICE1712 multi [ICE1712 multi] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 Working Midi: 16:0 TerraTec DMX6Fire MIDI-Front DMX6fire 0 16:32 TerraTec DMX6Fire Wavetable DMX6fire 0 (*): 4.4.0-6.21 kernel retrieved and manually installed onto Ubuntu 14.04LTS Skylake-based system: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/amd64/linux-headers-4.4.0-6/4.4.0-6.21 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/amd64/linux-headers-4.4.0-6-generic/4.4.0-6.21 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/amd64/linux-image-4.4.0-6-generic/4.4.0-6.21 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/amd64/linux-image-extra-4.4.0-6-generic/4.4.0-6.21 ........ Well, if you improve something you use, it's better to follow each rules of development. Instead of wishing, I'd rather make things happen and get things fixed. --Niels. _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user |
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On Thu, 18 Feb 2016, Niels Mayer wrote:
> result is that the problem was acknowledged, a new build was done, and the issue > was resolved. ... > Specifically, I can now confirm working ICE1712 cards, and associated mudita24(1) > application, on > 4.4.0-6-generic #21-Ubuntu SMP Tue Feb 16 20:32:27 UTC (*). +1 I can also confirm this is working, though on somewhat older chipset :) -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user |
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fantastic!
thanks for your report. Still not sure whether to update the mobo thou. I have a ASUS that dates from way back 2008 (!) with Intel COre 2 Duo E8400, 3 GHz. Can someone tell me if a 4 core Intel CPU will be significantly faster when it comes to audio processing? |
Re: Updated to kernel 4.4.1, missing module snd_ice1712 -> no more envy24 support?
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On Fri, 19 Feb 2016 01:48:29 -0700 (MST), Menno wrote:
>Still not sure whether to update the mobo thou. I have a ASUS that >dates from way back 2008 (!) with Intel COre 2 Duo E8400, 3 GHz. >Can someone tell me if a 4 core Intel CPU will be significantly faster >when it comes to audio processing? An answer to this question doesn't help you very much, since the combination of hardware is full of pitfalls. It's possible that you can't get rid of xruns, even if minimal DSP load is reported, what ever latency you chose, while the card doesn't share an IRQ. Seemingly the combination of CPU + mobo + amount of RAM + audio card and even the revision of the boards might be important. _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user |
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It is good to know that there is still a modern motherboard out there with PCI for my Delta1010 (not LT).
I have no xruns at 1.3 latency with my Dual Core CPU. I find it strange that because my system is 8 years old i still have doubts if a new system with Quad Core will be a big improvement... |
Re: Updated to kernel 4.4.1, missing module snd_ice1712 -> no more envy24 support?
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There might be some useful information provided by this thread:
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2015-December/103453.html CPU with or without integrated graphics? Is it possible to disable secure boot/UEFI, does the mobo provide a classic BIOS? Etc. ... I still use my old mobo, but soon or later will buy a new one. _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user |
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In reply to this post by Menno
On Fri, 19 Feb 2016, Menno wrote:
> Still not sure whether to update the mobo thou. I have a ASUS that dates > from way back 2008 (!) with Intel COre 2 Duo E8400, 3 GHz. > Can someone tell me if a 4 core Intel CPU will be significantly faster when > it comes to audio processing? faster is not really the right measure I think. I have an i5 4 core cpu and my son has a 2 core cpu simmilar to yours (but newer). From a desktop perspective and in terms of "snappy feel" there is really not much difference. Mind you he uses his for mostly watch youtube stuff where GPU makes the most difference anyway. I do notice that compiling a program is faster on the i5, but that is hardly a measure for audio use. Raw speed does not give a good measure of lowlatency, it seems the more tricks the cpu uses to improve throughput, the higher the latency as well. Latency depends on being able to meet schedules, tricks like "Boost", "Hyperthreading" and their AMD counter parts will affect the OS ability to meet short schedules. This is why I chose the i5 over the i7. On my atom based netbook, I found that turning HT off and setting my cpu to run at 800Mhz gave better audio (no xruns) at lower latency than letting the cpu run faster in ondemand (variable from 800 - 1600mhz). In theory, ondemand should not make any difference, the speed switching is very quick. However, any loop time based on cpu clock will go over time if the cpu speed suddenly lowers during that loop. (that is the only thing I can think of that gives xruns right when the cpu speed drops) "Boost" is just more of the same speed change issues. With audio use, the whole measure is if the DSP does not run out of time in one period. That is, if jack is set to 32/2, is all the DSP finished in less than 1.33ms. If 4 cores is better than two depends on the DSP being done. For example in a use case where there is incoming MIDI that runs a softsynth to create dirrect sound for stage use, all the processing is serial and so would all have to be done on one core anyway. (overly simplified BTW) More complex setups might very well be able to split DSP over more cores. Are you using Jack1 or jack2? Jack1 is single core, Jack2 tries to spread the load over cores. An audio application may be able to spread it's own processing over cores beyond what jack does too. At least the GUI stuff does not need to be a part of the DSP thread. So the answer is... it depends. ;) -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user |
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okay, i have to read this over a couple of times before i can get my head around this. But a lot your elaborate answer!
I'm still stuck in the phase that not much has changed in 8 years in terms of "just getting the processed data out much faster". And i'm stuck in the phase that says that things would get better and better :P I'm using Csound and Blue when i work with audio, and i would like to render the output in realtime. I jst need speed ! |
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On Sat, 20 Feb 2016, Menno wrote:
> okay, i have to read this over a couple of times before i can get my head > around this. But a lot your elaborate answer! > > I'm still stuck in the phase that not much has changed in 8 years in terms > of "just getting the processed data out much faster". And i'm stuck in the > phase that says that things would get better and better :P > > I'm using Csound and Blue when i work with audio, and i would like to render > the output in realtime. I jst need speed ! The question then is what is "real time" for you? What latency are you running now? If you take a low cpu synth what is the lowest latency you can run at without xruns (what is the lowest latency you can run jackd for some hours at doing nothing with no xruns)? Are you already using a lowlatency or real time kernel? As I said before, speed is generally not the question though speed can help. Certainly more speed in the basic processor itself will help provided the cpu is not using tricks to acheive throughput that damage latency. Also stay away from MB where the main claim to fame is low power use as you will want to turn almost any power saving stuff off for reliable low latency audio use anyway. Some people are able to work with as high as jackd running 256/2 for real time use, I need 128/2 minimum and prefer at least 64/2. This not zero latency but small latency (there is no such thing as zero latency even with all analog gear. The air adds latency at least which our brain just deals with). So far you have not told us what latency you use now or how low you have tried to run. I have been able to do low latency audio (guitarix at 64/2) with no xruns on a single core atom running at 1.5Ghz. (disclaimer, there were some of the default presets that did cause xruns, but most not) Your system should be able to do better. If you can run your current setup with less processing requirements at a reasonable latency (internel intel HDA may not be able to go below 64/3 for latency anyway), then adding more processing power may help. If your workflow allows the use of multi-cores even better. Use jackd2 should help some. So, what are you doing now? What interface? how low can you run jack? What sample rate (48k should be fine)? Also, I don't know C sound or Blue well, is there buffer size adjustments inside these applications as well? It would be nice if you left the questions you are replying to in your answering email as well. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user |
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