zitaretuner

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zitaretuner

Fons Adriaensen-3
Hello all,

Today I got an email of a user asking me to help him make a plugin
called 'zitaretuner' work. I never wrote such a plugin, and I didn't
even know it existed. So I can't help this user.

Of course this made me curious, and I managed to get a copy of
the source code of this lv2 plugin. And I wasn't very amused.

As expected it's based on zita-at1, and again a complete disaster.

The DSP code of zita-at1 is written as a neat self-contained C++
class with a very clean interface, and this is done explicitly to
make it re-usable.

But instead of re-using it, the author of the plugin decided to
rewrite it in C, and combine it in the same source file with parts
of libzitaresampler (instead of using that as a library as it is
meant to), and with whatever is required to turn it into an lv2.
The whole thing is just a single source file.

The same author (who is know only as 'jg') didn't bother to add
a decent GUI, relying on the plugin host to create one. That means
for example that the note selection buttons (which also double as
'current note' indicators in zita-at1), are replaced by faders.
Only $GOD knows what they are supposed to control.

And as a final topping on the cake, that whole crappy thing is
presented as if I were the author of it all. No mention at all
that things have been modified, and by whom or why. This alone
is a clear violation of the license under which zita-at1 was
released. And whoever did it doesn't even have the courage to
identify him/herself.

I've complained about this sort of thing before, and this time
I'm really pissed. So let one thing be clear: I will never again
release any code under a license that allows this sort of thing
to happen.


Ciao,


--
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

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Re: zitaretuner

Peder Hedlund
Quoting Fons Adriaensen <[hidden email]>:

> Today I got an email of a user asking me to help him make a plugin
> called 'zitaretuner' work. I never wrote such a plugin, and I didn't
> even know it existed. So I can't help this user.

> I've complained about this sort of thing before, and this time
> I'm really pissed. So let one thing be clear: I will never again
> release any code under a license that allows this sort of thing
> to happen.

FWIW, I don't think any FLOSS license requires the person changing the  
code to take responsibility for his or her changes. The licenses are  
usually there to protect the creator of the original code.

I guess your case is somewhat similar to what Mozilla is seeing with  
the Firefox code; they don't want distributions' changes to bite them  
in the ass so they copyright the name and requires other people to  
release the modified code under another brand name, such as IceWeasel.

JeffG seems fairly active on LinuxMusicians so you might have a chance  
at contacting him over there.
http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=12820

  - Peder
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Re: zitaretuner

Chris Caudle
In reply to this post by Fons Adriaensen-3
> From: Fons Adriaensen <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>

> Hello all,
>
> Today I got an email of a user asking me to help him make a plugin
> called 'zitaretuner' work. I never wrote such a plugin...
> ... And whoever did it doesn't even have the courage to
> identify him/herself.
>
> I've complained about this sort of thing before, and this time
> I'm really pissed. So let one thing be clear: I will never again
> release any code under a license that allows this sort of thing
> to happen.

Doesn't the GPL v2 already prevent this sort of thing for anyone who
adheres to the license terms?

 2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of
it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and distribute
such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 above, provided
that you also meet all of these conditions:

    a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices
stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.

It seems the only way to prevent that kind of abuse is to not release the
code at all.  That would be a very sad outcome for Linux audio users.

--
Chris Caudle



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Re: zitaretuner

Chris Caudle
On Fri, October 10, 2014 4:55 pm, Chris Caudle wrote:
>> ... And whoever did it doesn't even have the courage to
>> identify him/herself.

You mean Jeff isn't enough of an identifier for you?

Did you send Jeff G a message pointing out your displeasure that he did
not properly observe section 2 of the GPL?  And that such non-observance
of section 2 would mean that section 5 is applicable?

5. You are not required to accept this License, since you have not signed
it. However, nothing else grants you permission to modify or distribute
the Program or its derivative works. These actions are prohibited by law
if you do not accept this License. Therefore, by modifying or distributing
the Program (or any work based on the Program), you indicate your
acceptance of this License to do so, and all its terms and conditions for
copying, distributing or modifying the Program or works based on it.

http://sourceforge.net/u/j-e-f-f-g/profile/send_message

The SourceForge support page has a form to report inappropriate content.
If Jeff G refuses to make necessary changes to comply with the GPL after
contacting him you could request SourceForge to remove the project.

http://sourceforge.net/support

-- Chris Caudle

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Re: zitaretuner

Will Godfrey
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 17:09:10 -0500
"Chris Caudle" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, October 10, 2014 4:55 pm, Chris Caudle wrote:
> >> ... And whoever did it doesn't even have the courage to
> >> identify him/herself.
>
> You mean Jeff isn't enough of an identifier for you?

Seems it's already been removed.

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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Re: [LAD] zitaretuner

Philipp Überbacher-2
In reply to this post by Fons Adriaensen-3
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:14:14 +0000
Fons Adriaensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Today I got an email of a user asking me to help him make a plugin
> called 'zitaretuner' work. I never wrote such a plugin, and I didn't
> even know it existed. So I can't help this user.
>
> Of course this made me curious, and I managed to get a copy of
> the source code of this lv2 plugin. And I wasn't very amused.
>
> As expected it's based on zita-at1, and again a complete disaster.
>
> The DSP code of zita-at1 is written as a neat self-contained C++
> class with a very clean interface, and this is done explicitly to
> make it re-usable.
>
> But instead of re-using it, the author of the plugin decided to
> rewrite it in C, and combine it in the same source file with parts
> of libzitaresampler (instead of using that as a library as it is
> meant to), and with whatever is required to turn it into an lv2.
> The whole thing is just a single source file.
>
> The same author (who is know only as 'jg') didn't bother to add
> a decent GUI, relying on the plugin host to create one. That means
> for example that the note selection buttons (which also double as
> 'current note' indicators in zita-at1), are replaced by faders.
> Only $GOD knows what they are supposed to control.
>
> And as a final topping on the cake, that whole crappy thing is
> presented as if I were the author of it all. No mention at all
> that things have been modified, and by whom or why. This alone
> is a clear violation of the license under which zita-at1 was
> released. And whoever did it doesn't even have the courage to
> identify him/herself.
>
> I've complained about this sort of thing before, and this time
> I'm really pissed. So let one thing be clear: I will never again
> release any code under a license that allows this sort of thing
> to happen.
>
>
> Ciao,


Hi Fons,

too bad that things like that happen.
If he really did violate the license then this has to be sorted out. He
should probably also use some other name to rule out confusions such as
the one you just experienced.
However, the bad quality code is a different issue. You really can't
force people to write good code or do sensible things with code you
release under a license like the GPL, everyone can fuck it up as bad as
he wants to and release it. Whether it's useful and will be used is a
different matter. Of course we all would like high quality code and
while your code usually lives up to a pretty high standard a lot of
other code does not and you can't expect it to.

I really don't know how releasing the code under a different license
could possibly get rid of this issue. If people violate the GPL they
will violate any other license as well and there's little you can do
about it. The only way that might work is to not release any code at
all, and I hope that you won't go down that road.

Best regards,
Philipp
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Re: [LAD] zitaretuner

Paul Davis


On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 9:22 PM, Philipp Überbacher <[hidden email]> wrote:

If he really did violate the license then this has to be sorted out. He
should probably also use some other name to rule out confusions such as
the one you just experienced.

he used a different name than any Fons had used. his name did still include the four letters "zita".
 
However, the bad quality code is a different issue. You really can't
force people to write good code or do sensible things with code you
release under a license like the GPL, everyone can fuck it up as bad as
he wants to and release it.

i use the GPL because i think it is a good way to get better quality software in the long run for users.

part of what makes it a better way is that it tends to (only tends to, it does not require) suggest collaboration and respect for the developers that came before you. people do fork GPL projects (for good and bad reasons), but overwhelming they attempt to *contribute* to them. acknowledging that we all stand on the shoulders of giants is even easier when the giants are still alive and easily reachable via email.

when people like jeffg (who even after repeated explanations continue to spout nonsense about how block structured audio processing on Linux or any other general purpose OS actually works) take GPL'ed code and fail to interact in any way with the original author, they are not violating the letter of the GPL but they are violating a big part of its "real world spirit". sure, nothing in the GPL requires this communication,  but not doing so makes the GPL less productive, less useful, less appropriate.

however, as philipp noted, i think that i have never seen any open source license that would prohibit what happened here. it would be a great shame if fons' immense contributions to audio software, and linux audio software in particular, ended up being released under closed source licenses in the future.


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Re: [LAD] zitaretuner

Hermann Meyer
In reply to this post by Fons Adriaensen-3
Am 10.10.2014 22:14, schrieb Fons Adriaensen:
I've complained about this sort of thing before, and this time
I'm really pissed. So let one thing be clear: I will never again
release any code under a license that allows this sort of thing
to happen. 


Ciao,
<span style="" class="notranslate" onmouseover="_tipon(this)" onmouseout="_tipoff()">Zita came with 12 years as a maid to the wealthy family Pagano di Fatinelli according to Lucca , she was industrious and charitable to the poor. <span style="" class="notranslate" onmouseover="_tipon(this)" onmouseout="_tipoff()"> It was suppressed and teased by the family and other servants, yet retained her kindness and endured the hardest of blows as tests of their unshakable faith.

http://www.catholic.org/saints/ff_images/152.gif

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Re: [LAD] zitaretuner

Florian Paul Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by Fons Adriaensen-3
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 10.10.2014 22:14, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Today I got an email of a user asking me to help him make a plugin
> called 'zitaretuner' work. I never wrote such a plugin, and I
> didn't even know it existed. So I can't help this user.
>
> Of course this made me curious, and I managed to get a copy of the
> source code of this lv2 plugin. And I wasn't very amused.

[...]

> I've complained about this sort of thing before, and this time I'm
> really pissed. So let one thing be clear: I will never again
> release any code under a license that allows this sort of thing to
> happen.
>

You must not ever release any source code to anyone then. Cause this
kind of thing is bound to happen. People will ignore licenses. People
will butcher code.

It has always been the same with any other idea that mankind ever came
up with and will always be the same. Some will butcher them. Some will
transform them into a new gem, but almost always standing on the
shoulders of the giants that came before them. That's the condition of
human progress. Unless we introduce the total police/thought state..
And whether one's name is attached to it or not is completely
meaningless in the long run, for human lifetime is short compared to
mankind's.

Have fun,
Flo


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Re: zitaretuner

Fons Adriaensen-3
In reply to this post by Chris Caudle
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 05:09:10PM -0500, Chris Caudle wrote:

> On Fri, October 10, 2014 4:55 pm, Chris Caudle wrote:

> >> ... And whoever did it doesn't even have the courage to
> >> identify him/herself.
>
> You mean Jeff isn't enough of an identifier for you?

There is no reference to 'Jeff' anywhere and no mail address.
The AUTHORS and source files only refer to me. There is just
one hint in the name of the LV2 bundle: 'jg_zitaretuner.lv2'.

Ciao,

--
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

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Re: [LAD] zitaretuner

Fons Adriaensen-3
In reply to this post by Hermann Meyer
On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 05:41:37AM +0200, hermann meyer wrote:

> Am 10.10.2014 22:14, schrieb Fons Adriaensen:

> >I've complained about this sort of thing before, and this time
> >I'm really pissed. So let one thing be clear: I will never again
> >release any code under a license that allows this sort of thing
> >to happen.

> Zita came with 12 years as a maid to the wealthy family Pagano di
> Fatinelli according to Lucca

Google translator got this wrong: it should be 'in Lucca'
(a very nice town in Toscana).

But my 'trademark' has nothing at all to do with saints, 'zita'
means the greek letter 'zeta' which in greek is called 'zita',
and 'kokkini' means 'red'. This was inspired by the name of
the small seaside town 'Kokkini Chani' on Crete - I liked the
sound of it.

There is some wordplay involved as well: in a popular Flemish
comic strip there is a character called 'Rooie Zita' which means
'red-haired Zita'. She's the girlfriend of the hero and doesn't
look like a saint at all (google for 'Rooie Zita').

Ciao,

--
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

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Re: [LAD] zitaretuner

Joakim Hernberg-2
In reply to this post by Fons Adriaensen-3
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:14:14 +0000
Fons Adriaensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Today I got an email of a user asking me to help him make a plugin
> called 'zitaretuner' work. I never wrote such a plugin, and I didn't
> even know it existed. So I can't help this user.

> And as a final topping on the cake, that whole crappy thing is
> presented as if I were the author of it all. No mention at all
> that things have been modified, and by whom or why. This alone
> is a clear violation of the license under which zita-at1 was
> released. And whoever did it doesn't even have the courage to
> identify him/herself.

> I've complained about this sort of thing before, and this time
> I'm really pissed. So let one thing be clear: I will never again
> release any code under a license that allows this sort of thing
> to happen.

I'm very sorry to hear this Fons.

Seems completely unacceptable to modify GPL code without clearly
stating who has done the modification and just leave the old information
in place making it appear as it is the work of the original author.
Using the zita moniker in the name of the program just serves to
confuse the situation ever more.

IIRC it's not the first time this person has indulged in similar
behaviour either..

FWIW, I just want to let you know that I have been enjoying using your
software and very much appreciate the work you have done for open
source audio software, and that I totally understand your anger at such
unacceptable behaviour.

--

   Joakim
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Re: zitaretuner

Marc Lavallée
In reply to this post by Fons Adriaensen-3
Hello Fons.

On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:14:14 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote :

> And as a final topping on the cake, that whole crappy thing is
> presented as if I were the author of it all. No mention at all
> that things have been modified, and by whom or why. This alone
> is a clear violation of the license under which zita-at1 was
> released. And whoever did it doesn't even have the courage to
> identify him/herself.
>
> I've complained about this sort of thing before, and this time
> I'm really pissed. So let one thing be clear: I will never again
> release any code under a license that allows this sort of thing
> to happen.

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 23:41:38 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
> however, as philipp noted, i think that i have never seen any open
> source license that would prohibit what happened here. it would be a
> great shame if fons' immense contributions to audio software, and
> linux audio software in particular, ended up being released under
> closed source licenses in the future.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 03:22:41 +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote :
> I really don't know how releasing the code under a different license
> could possibly get rid of this issue. If people violate the GPL they
> will violate any other license as well and there's little you can do
> about it. The only way that might work is to not release any code at
> all, and I hope that you won't go down that road.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 11:30:58 +0200, Florian Paul Schmidt wrote:
> You must not ever release any source code to anyone then. Cause this
> kind of thing is bound to happen. People will ignore licenses. People
> will butcher code.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 14:48:35 +0200, Joakim Hernberg wrote :
> Seems completely unacceptable to modify GPL code without clearly
> stating who has done the modification and just leave the old
> information in place making it appear as it is the work of the
> original author. Using the zita moniker in the name of the program
> just serves to confuse the situation ever more.

The GPL is not in cause; a binary released with a non-free license
could also have attribution issues.

On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 17:09:10 -0500, Chris Caudle wrote :
> http://sourceforge.net/u/j-e-f-f-g/profile/send_message

On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 23:18:42 +0100, Will Godfrey wrote :
> Seems it's already been removed.

Looking carefully at :
http://sourceforge.net/u/j-e-f-f-g/profile/
nothing appeared to be released.

But a Google search for zitaretuner shows some previous activity on
SourceForge. I can see:

"zitaretuner. LV2 and LADSPA versions of Fons Adriaensen's pitch
retuner. Brought to you by: j-e-f-f-g"

It looks like the software was attributed to j-e-f-f-g, as a version of
retuner by Fons Adriaensen.

Is there a link to the current release? How can we get the software?

--
Marc

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Re: zitaretuner

Filipe Coelho
On 10/11/2014 03:44 PM, Marc Lavallée wrote:
> Is there a link to the current release? How can we get the software?

I think this is it:
http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=10889

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Re: zitaretuner

Fons Adriaensen-3
In reply to this post by Marc Lavallée
On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 10:44:11AM -0400, Marc Lavallée wrote:
 
> Is there a link to the current release? How can we get the software?

In its current form it violates the license of zita-at1 and should
not be available at all.

Ciao,

--
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

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Re: zitaretuner

Marc Lavallée
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 16:26:23 +0100, Filipe Coelho wrote :
> On 10/11/2014 03:44 PM, Marc Lavallée wrote:
> > Is there a link to the current release? How can we get the software?
>
> I think this is it:
> http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=10889

I don't see it.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 15:54:29 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote :

> On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 10:44:11AM -0400, Marc Lavallée wrote:
>  
> > Is there a link to the current release? How can we get the software?
>
> In its current form it violates the license of zita-at1 and should
> not be available at all.

Hello Fons.

If the software is released, that it is wrongly attributed, there's ways
to fix the problem.  The FSF can probably help.

Good luck!
--
Marc
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Re: zitaretuner

Philipp Überbacher-2
In reply to this post by Marc Lavallée
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 10:44:11 -0400
Marc Lavallée <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The GPL is not in cause; a binary released with a non-free license
> could also have attribution issues.

That is actually a good point. There are lots of cases where someone
distributes closed source programs of other people and attributes it
wrongly. Sometimes with branding changes and/or added malware. The only
thing that closing the source might do is to reduce 'code butchering'.
It would also prevent people from learning from the code and from
reusing it in a sensible way.

Regards,
Philipp
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Re: zitaretuner

Hermann Meyer
In reply to this post by Marc Lavallée
Am 11.10.2014 18:14, schrieb Marc Lavallée:
> On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 16:26:23 +0100, Filipe Coelho wrote :
>> On 10/11/2014 03:44 PM, Marc Lavallée wrote:
>>> Is there a link to the current release? How can we get the software?
>> I think this is it:
>> http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=10889
> I don't see it.

No, it's this one:
http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=12367

However, jeff have removed all of his zita ports from sourceforge already.
Project pages are empty now.

Also, note that the "zitaretuner" from jeff never works (at least here).
;-)


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Re: zitaretuner

Marc Lavallée
In reply to this post by Fons Adriaensen-3
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 10:02:06 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> > On Fri, October 10, 2014 4:55 pm, Chris Caudle wrote:
> > >> ... And whoever did it doesn't even have the courage to
> > >> identify him/herself.
> >
> > You mean Jeff isn't enough of an identifier for you?
>
> There is no reference to 'Jeff' anywhere and no mail address.
> The AUTHORS and source files only refer to me. There is just
> one hint in the name of the LV2 bundle: 'jg_zitaretuner.lv2'.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 15:54:29 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote :
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 10:44:11AM -0400, Marc Lavallée wrote:
> > Is there a link to the current release? How can we get the software?
>
> In its current form it violates the license of zita-at1 and should
> not be available at all.


Hello Fons.

I was also curious, so I found a source for zitaretuner version 1.0.
(I'm not providing the link here; I'll send it to you)

The COPYRIGHT file clearly include the author info with its name,
email address and personal web site, and the date of the release.

It does also include your name and the date (year) of your original
contribution (if there's any). In the source code, only your name is
mentionned, as if you were the original author. I confirm the problem.

The author don't seem to understand how to use the GPL in a proper way,
at least in terms of attribution. He should make all the required
corrections and contact all the distributors.

--
Marc
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Re: zitaretuner

Chris Caudle
In reply to this post by Fons Adriaensen-3
(Apologies for the new few messages messing up the message identifiers, I
am currently subscribed to the digest.)

> From: Will Godfrey <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [LAU] zitaretuner
> Message-ID: <20141010231842.1e9052fb@debian>

> Seems it's [zitaretuner SourceForge project] already been removed.

I hope I did not overstep any boundaries, but on Friday (10 October) I had
sent a copy of the LAU message from Fons to JeffG via the SourceForge
messaging facility.  I received no reply but perhaps JeffG took the
project down as a (hopefully) good faith gesture that he had intended no
offense, and made a mistake through ignorance or carelessness.

Since the message was posted fairly publicly by Fons, I did not think it
would be any kind of breach of trust to forward on the message. Someone
please let me know if I was mistaken in that regard.
--
Chris Caudle



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